Re: Changes thread

Guardian Angel Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:31 pm

Matthew G wrote:
System Commander wrote:Hmm.. interesting. So.. Chaos Lord with claws charges a 10 man tac squad with 8 berserkers. Lord goes.. then everyone on init 4 goes simul. Before the lord can ever take a wound.. all the berserkers have to die.. even if the lord is the "closest" because hes at a high init and everyone else is 4? And... on top of that do you still have to remove the closest model at that initiative sequence?

This all seems very.. odd.

When you say it like that, yeah, seems wonky.
Seems like close combat would be the ultimate shield for IC models, because most ICs that would be in the squad would be higher initiative than everyone else.

However, if you have an IC in each squad fighting, they may have to "fight each other" even if there was no challenge issued if they are the same initiative.

System Commander Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:33 pm

Ill have to see how it works. It still feels funny probably because its different.

Chaos is always a tough example since they have to issue and accept challenges. My initial feeling is that it will be beneficial .. but again, Ill have to try it out.

Id take powerfists much more often on my squad champs if they didnt have the challenge issue.. im already excited that against a MC the fist champ doesnt have to challenge him alone while the others twiddle around.

Im surprised no one has caught this yet elsewhere.. good grab Tom.

Aegwymourn Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:45 pm

System Commander wrote:Ill have to see how it works. It still feels funny probably because its different.

Chaos is always a tough example since they have to issue and accept challenges. My initial feeling is that it will be beneficial .. but again, Ill have to try it out.

Id take powerfists much more often on my squad champs if they didnt have the challenge issue.. im already excited that against a MC the fist champ doesnt have to challenge him alone while the others twiddle around.

Im surprised no one has caught this yet elsewhere.. good grab Tom.

Well this edition I'm trying really hard to read the whole thing. A lot of times between editions I tend to skim read (which I'm sure most of us do) and miss these sort of things. I wonder even if other gaming groups (BoLS or FLG) have noticed it.

Aegwymourn Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:59 pm

Another assault based one. If you are charged while falling back you get an attempt to regroup on your normal leadership (even if you are below 25%). If you pass you regroup and are assaulted. If you fail you are destroyed.

Also falling back units are immune to pinning (makes sense). Also units falling back cannot Go to Ground.

You can Go to Ground when assaulting and are hit with overwatch fire, but the assault automatically fails.

Salvo weapons can't charge after shooting no matter which profile they are using.

Don't know if any of those are changes, but seemed interesting to me.

Matthew G Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:41 pm

Paz wrote:Makes total sense to me. Why would u kill someone other than the guy trying to beat your face in?

Lots of ICs are tough and in an assault you may want to try and like as many possible wounds from your Nobel guys onto them in order to soften them up. According to this info I don't know if it's possible to directly attack an IC in melee now unless you go at same time as it

Lore Weaver Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:12 pm

Tom, I think you misread the init step thing.

The bolded bit in the rulebook says, "A Wound must be allocated to an enemy model in base contact with a model attacking at that initiative step."

So the "closest model" would always be considered to be one in base with that initiative step. I don't think that's any different than 6th.

System Commander Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:20 pm

According to the rule.. you just choose your init step first.. if different then goes to closest. Mc arent as protected in cc anymore.. the lesser guys not in the cgallenege get to hit him if there are no other enemies.

Aegwymourn Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:20 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:Tom, I think you misread the init step thing.

The bolded bit in the rulebook says, "A Wound must be allocated to an enemy model in base contact with a model attacking at that initiative step."

So the "closest model" would always be considered to be one in base with that initiative step. I don't think that's any different than 6th.

Hrm. I can see your point. And the way I was reading it seems much more clunky and involved.

System Commander Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:26 pm

Ahh yes, same as last. Thats good.

Matthew G Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:28 pm

Can someone with a book clarify something for me?

Did they get rid of the 'no joining 1 model units' rule?

Reading through Bolter and Chainsword, it seems a blood angel player had Corbulo "join" Mephiston's "unit"... Since Meph is not an IC, and therefor is a unit on his own, this guy on the forums there said you can join IC's to him...
He is calling it the Mephstar unit... LOL. have them embark in a Landraider turn 1, and then scoot up the field to rain devastation. He described the Meph/Corb unit as absorbing 41 shots from bolters from a dark angel squad with banner of bolter doom. Since Meph is T6 (or 9 if you get Iron arm), you would use His T for shots even directed at corbulo. Any shot that could kill corbs outright you LoS to Mephiston.... O.o

Would this mean then that an IC can "join" Sanguinars "squad" too then?

Iiiiiiiinteeeressssting....

judchic Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:45 pm

"independent characters can join other units. they cannot, however, join units that contain vehicles or monstrous creatures. they can join other independent characters though, to form a powerful multi-character unit!"

so the 1 model rule is gone. technically you could put meph with a captain, chaplain, sanquinary guard and more. that would be very interesting to see lol...

Matthew G Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:52 pm

judchic wrote:"independent characters can join other units. they cannot, however, join units that contain vehicles or monstrous creatures. they can join other independent characters though, to form a powerful multi-character unit!"

so the 1 model rule is gone. technically you could put meph with a captain, chaplain, sanquinary guard and more. that would be very interesting to see lol...

Not Sanguinary Guard. Meph isn't an IC, so he himself cannot join a squad. So no to the Sanguinary Guard.
Sanguinary Priest on the other hand (Corbulo), or Any of the other IC's, totally.

*evil giggle* I may have to try out the Mephistar unit at least once, even though I am not digging the New Psychic rules in conjunction with *my* psykers. Load corbs and meph onto a stormraven, fly it mid field and sky drop them in the move phase, then Psy power meph up and next turn smash face.

Hmmm, Corbs and Sanguinar... No, wouldn't work...

Omg.. Dante and Sanguinar.... O.o
Unerring Deepstrike and smash face. Things get out of hand, hit and run...

Aegwymourn Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:58 pm

So the way I'm reading it they fixed the whole grav-weapon and vehicle damage issue. Since it doesn't cause a penetrating or glancing hit it only removes one hull point per 6. At least that is what I take from "Vehicle Damage Results and Hull Points".

Aegwymourn Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:35 pm

The damage taken on passengers from exploded flying transports is back to random allocation. No more having a tank soak them all!

Lore Weaver Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:00 pm

Aegwymourn wrote:The damage taken on passengers from exploded flying transports is back to random allocation. No more having a tank soak them all!

It was before too, we just never played it that way.

Aegwymourn Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:05 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:
Aegwymourn wrote:The damage taken on passengers from exploded flying transports is back to random allocation. No more having a tank soak them all!
It was before too, we just never played it that way.

IIRC it was a FAQ for the BRB changing it from random to "controlling player's choice" shortly after 6th's release.

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