6th rumors

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6th rumors

Post  System Commander on Sun May 27, 2012 9:44 am

Of all the rumors coming out.. This is the coolest one so far.. At imo.

Youll be able to set area terrain aflame .. That and each army will be abke to either buy ot select pieces of terrain.. Again.. Much like fantasy. Dont know why they are borrowing so heavily from fantasy when 40k sells better. No idea wjat motivates that rationale.

But.. You can set terrain on fire! I dont know why.. But that really entertains me.

Oh.. And random game length is going away. Woohoo


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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Spamus Eatus on Sun May 27, 2012 11:45 am

Not woohoo, because that would mean that now you have people deliberately wanting to go 2nd so that they can do a last turn hidden speeder rush to take or contest objectives, rendering all of the game moot.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  ScottRadom on Sun May 27, 2012 1:11 pm

Just because something sells more doesn't mean it's of better quality. Shame Robyn!

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Roland on Sun May 27, 2012 2:33 pm

.. but people do vote w/ thier wallets.

I'm hoping many of the new rumors are false. If I wanted to play fantasy, I'd buy fantasy models.

5th has issues but its a goog ruleset. Tweak wound allocation, vehicle damage, and cover and you've fixed 90% of its issues. We need a ruleset that builds on 5th, not one that scraps it.

(Think D&D 3rd ->3.5)

I could be wrong and this ruleset could be the greatest thing since sliced bread....

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Spamus Eatus on Sun May 27, 2012 3:59 pm

I'm just not paying any attention to most 40k rumors these days. With GWs crackdown on leaks, it's pretty much impossible to make any predictions what's coming up. This is a small rant unto itself, but I'll save that for another time.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Roland on Sun May 27, 2012 4:16 pm

I'm inclined to agree. When the rumormongers say that 4-5 codexes are at the printers and those same 4-5 aren't coming out til next year......

On a semi-related note, for a crackdown on leaks..... isn't there a large amount of information out there?Smile

Also, I'm actually kinda liking finding out about something (flyers) and having it out a week or 2 later....

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  System Commander on Sun May 27, 2012 6:26 pm

Yes yes.. everyone says it all the time.. Im not listening to rumours , etc. etc... but I have this thread so people can discuss proposed rumours becasue they are rumours.

I dont care the validity, its fun to talk about the what if and what then. As for the game length being random proposed to be gone.. awesome.. I hate random game length. We dont know how the rest of the game has changed and with last turn rushes being prominent before, I cant see it comingback in without some type of control.

The rumour for determining first turn seems pretty complex, but has full game implications so should be interesting.

If a game sells more, it means its like 100 times better.. but, with the rumours change in psychic powers to that of 6th magic, and challenges coming in, and now the terrain.. I guess I just dont like the two games getting closer together.. Id prefer them going farther and farther apart.



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Re: 6th rumors

Post  dusktiger on Sun May 27, 2012 7:32 pm

im inclined to agree with you robyn; fantasy and 40k are 2 entirely different games, and should stay different. merging rules from both to get something that feels the same but uses different models is just silly. if that's the goal, what's next? grand master epistolary cleric gandalf, and his chapter of the sons of pippin took taking to the field of battle on their squig mounts against the dark eldar ratkin-shaggers of urukhai?

just because a ruleset is effective and plays well in the one game system, doesnt mean it would pan out for the other game systems they sell. they should stay separate and give the customers a different feel and playing experience between the systems, especially for that portion of their customer base who happens to play 2 or all 3 of their main product lines.

if they blend all the rules, then what's the point in investing in the 3 when they all play the same; may as well just pick models from all 3 lines you like for ascetics and blend them together into one army at that point. and we know if someone walked into the den today and played an army like that, we'd say that's stupid and just wont fly. so why would we say in the same sentence that that sort of blending of rules is ok?


in terms of the rumors, some seem neat, some seem crazy stupid. i've decided to wait and see what they are, with one expectation; that the new ruleset comes out with the freedom of modeling my models in cool poses with cool wargear that still happens to be legal rules-wise.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  ScottRadom on Sun May 27, 2012 8:13 pm

Warhammer 40K is based on the same core mechanics as Warhammer. Hence their names. The two will always be related. Both are evolving to try to better suite the game worlds they represent but to say either system is ideal I don't think is realistic. ANY new game rules or tweaks brought into the system that makes it better should be considered regardless of what game they're "borrowed" from. I would like 40K if they just ripped off the Flames of War rules and tossed out the 40K rulebook myself.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  System Commander on Sun May 27, 2012 8:32 pm

Im all for incorporating rules from fantasy if they are good.. Im just whining because of the challenges.. I just dont like them.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Roland on Sun May 27, 2012 10:03 pm

Scott: My issue isn't incorporating a rule from Fantasy if it will fix an issue. My issue is porting rules whole hog "just because" and they either make the issue worse, or don't have any affect.

All of the rumors so far do nothing for 40k's issues (would allocation shenigans, dominance of mecha, and cover) and for the most part, increase the complexity and/or time taken to play.

Note: I think most of the rumors out there are either deliberate misinformation by GW or people trying start something. GW is known for shoddy rules, but for an average player to find a major issue in how a rule works immediately?

Also I don't play fantasy so I have no opinion on it as a "good" or "bad" ruleset, I just don't like seeing a company change rules just for the sake of change. You are correct that a major shakeup may be what is needed. (I was around for AD&D 2nd to 3rd), I'm just saying it isnt necessarily automatically a good thing (see AD&D 3.5 to 4th)

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Planes on Wed May 30, 2012 11:39 am

Over at BoW they were talking about the possibility of "charge reactions" in 6th. Basically, when your squad would get assaulted, you can hose them down on their way in, but at BS1.

From a flavor point of view, I can see how this might work, but mechanically, depending on what restrictions are applied I could see this making things hell for Assault armies. If this was limited to, say, pistols (as your about to use them in melee anyway), I don't see that being so bad as pistols aren't very pervasive to my knowledge, not every squad will have them. However, if Assault weapons get in on this (which could be plausible, given the name of the rule), then you start running into things like charging into a Telsa Immortal squad being down right stupid. Even if I only hit on a roll of a 6, that 6 yields 3 hits. I learned first hand when fighting 'Nids that Telsa shooting is always worth it, even at BS 1.

The other big thing that springs to mind is the Sniper Pistol, such as the Exitus Pistol the Vindicare Assassin keeps on him. As all Sniper weapons bring with them the Pinning rule, what happens when 10 Boyz charge the lone Assassin, and he forces a Pinning test mid charge and they fail? Does the charge simply stop, and the Assassin got a free kill out of it on top of not being stuck in melee?

Also, if Assault weapons were allowed to "charge react", a number of Flamers are Assualt, including my lovely "fear thrower". As they are a template weapon that starts from the base of the unit firing it, BS is of no consequence to that model. If you thought charging Tesla Immortals was bad, wait until you see those Burna Boyz get charged.

While a novel idea, I think unless it is handled with extreme care, it could simply destroy melee meta for anyone that isn't rocking Terminator armor.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  ScottRadom on Wed May 30, 2012 5:28 pm

One of the reasons I don't play 40K is because I think it's just a stupid mechanic that the guys sitting on automatic weapons don't defend themselves when they're assaulted. Charge reactions are one of the things I personally need to see in the game if I am going to give it another shot.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Planes on Wed May 30, 2012 6:08 pm

I like the concept, but I think it needs to either be handled carefully or have other things changed along with it.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed May 30, 2012 6:46 pm

I don't see it as hard to implement.

when you get assaulted you have two options.
1) you can raise your gun and shoot the idiot with the chainsword in the face.
OR
2), you can ready your melee weapon and stab him in the face as he charges you.

Generally, you cant do both effectively in the time given.

*special weapon effects dont trigger,(pinning, fear etc) only attack strength and AP.
*Heavy weapons cannot be fired.
*templates (flamers) get placed before charge happens and anyone that runs over it takes a hit.

Look pa, i fixored it.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  dusktiger on Wed May 30, 2012 9:58 pm

i dont see it necessarily being implemented, simply for this reason; they keep saying they want the 40k rule set to be streamlined and allow for faster play. reactionary rules add another step of rules and actions to the game instead of simplifying it.

dont get me wrong; i'd love the option of getting a few shots in before, say, robyn's terminators assault my tactical squad.

but i'd lean towards believing they'd forgo that rule for the sake of making the game play faster.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Roland on Wed May 30, 2012 10:07 pm

If the game went
Player A move
Player B Move
player A shoot
player B shoot
common assault phase

you would get your shots off at those guys before they assaulted.

But this would also half the current assault phase, and possibly nerf 1/2 the armies.

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Re 6th

Post  Commander James of the Ul on Thu May 31, 2012 12:24 am

Roland wrote:If the game went
Player A move
Player B Move
player A shoot
player B shoot
common assault phase

you would get your shots off at those guys before they assaulted.

But this would also half the current assault phase, and possibly nerf 1/2 the armies.

Beau I've play tested something similar to this. But you don't remove casualties after player B's shooting phase. Aka when you see a tank or troops your going to want to site up and shoot asap. And If you have casualty markers the turns still pass at a faster to regular time period.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Dom.0 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:31 pm

im not to shure what james is getting at but i think makeing the game real time so to speak would be cool id also liked to see Ig get a new Gun the Auto las rifle fires 3 shoots within 12 in and 2 within 24 and should coust 5 pts 1 gun per normal squad

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RUMORED RELEASE DATE

Post  Roland on Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:49 pm

7/7 with a preorder up 6/23 (Note: Escalation tourney day. I totally didn't plan that.)

I bet GW is LOVING all this free advertising.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:30 am

Some morsals...

AP are on ccw but he says power weapons are ap 2, not 3.
When you charge it's double your move, infantry move 6, bikes 8 cav 7 etc.
It's move assault then shooting now!
Fnp is 5+. Master crafted ccw give you a 5+ invuln save
When you shoot you roll to hit depending on the speed of your target. Fast vehicles you always need a 6.
A unit can't claim a object while inside a vehicle.
There's new kinds of instance death. If your say strengh 8 vs a space marine captain toughness 4
you only do 2 wounds! Strengh (9?) or more would do 3 wounds & kill him.
In kill point missions you get kill points based on what the units points cost, so for example a
landraider would be worth 5 kill points & a unit of marines 3pts.

--

Preferred Enemy now allows re-rolls for Melee and Shooting attacks, also allows to re-roll to wound rolls of "1". Whell hallo Destroyers and Destroyer Lords... Maybe I won't chop up my Destroyers just yet!

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Roland on Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:34 am

FYI: All that is from the "leaked" 6th edition....
That gives me hope.
I still don't like the Move Assault Shoot dynamic. seems like it nerfs shooting, and makes BP a waste.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Planes on Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:18 am

Of course, I find this out after my destroyers start their trip to spyder-ville.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Rhaevyn on Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:04 pm

cut and paste from tastytaste @ bloodofkittens.

Looks like a lot of fun. also looks to be unbalanced as hell. somehow, lately i've gotten the idea into my head that GW has given up on making 40k into a balanced competitive tourney style game.

anyway

~~~~~~~~~~- Hull Points are in, it is stated that Ghost Arks, Land Raiders, and Defilers each have 4 Hull Points apiece. Necrons have the ability to strip hull points for each roll of a 6 to penetrate/glance vehicles, making rapid-firing gauss weaponry very powerful at removing armour.

– Speaking of rapid fire, you can indeed move and fire once up to the full range of the weapon (it is explicitly stated that Fire Warriors can fire their weapons up to 30″ away), no confirmation on the 3x fire for Relentless at half range though.

– Assault moves are indeed 2d6″, but added together. Units equipped with jump packs can re-roll the dice to see how far they charge.

– The Rage USR gives you +2 attacks on the charge

– All flying monstrous creatures have the ability to fly 24″, doing something called a “Vector Strike”, which is a certain amount of automatic hits to a unit they fly over, at the base strength of the creature.

– Monstrous creatures’ attacks are explicitly AP 2

– Every army must select a “Warlord” or single general to lead the army, this leader gets an ability. They can choose between three different types of abilities, “Personal”, “Inspirational” or “Strategic”. They then roll on one of those charts to see what ability it is. The two examples given were a Grand Master giving all friendlies within 12″ his Ld of 10 (Inspirational), and a Chaos Lord being a scoring unit (Personal, the ability itself was called “Immovable Object”)

– Flyers are a specific type of unit, and it is somewhat unclear as to the rules for shooting at them. Either all units require a 6 to hit them (unless they have a special rule called Skyfire), or this is still the case but only if those flyers move flat-out. Monstrous creatures with the ability to Fly also get this “6-to-hit” rule.

– You have the ability to buy different terrain (it even has its own slot on the new FOC), e.g, you can buy a Bastion with a Quad-Gun (which has the aforementioned Skyfire USR). There seem to be quite a few options for what terrain you can buy, but naturally most of them are typically represented by terrain kits GW sells.

– Now we’re on the topic of the FOC, the rules for allies weren’t laid out specifically, but it is heavily implied that its not the same as in WHFB. They refer to allied units as “Detachments”, and there is an example of a player with a Chaos Space Marine force having some detachments of Chaos Daemons in his army. Basically, I was given the impression that it is far more common (and frequent) for a detachment from another 40k army to join a larger one, than it is for a Fantasy army to have Allies. Think more along the lines of the Storm of Magic rules for using TK, VC, or Daemons.

– Here’s a biggie: Units -can- go on Overwatch, giving them the ability to fire upon an enemy unit which charges them, but at BS 1. Eldar (and any other army with access to the Clairvoyance psychic power set) can use a psychic power to give a unit the ability to fire at their usual BS.

– Monstrous Creatures have access to a special “Smash” attack, allowing them to halve their attacks, but double their strength. It mentions that this gives them the ability to destroy tanks more easily.

– It’s somewhat hinted that AP will have some kind of affect against vehicles. This is because part of the Munitorum dice set includes vehicle damage dice. It specifies that some of the dice are “AP 1, AP 2, and AP 3 Damage dice”, or something to that effect.

– 4 Disciplines of Psychic powers, basically what we were thinking in terms of Clairvoyance, Biomancy, etc etc. There’s a chart near the back of the WD detailing which (if any) psychic disciplines a particular army gains access to. It’s interesting to see that a large amount of armies don’t have access to any at all. - Land Speeders have the special rule “Jink”, which gives them a 5+ save all the time, this changes to 4+ if they go flat out. (I’m reasonably sure all fast skimmers get this, I’m not sure whether it’s a USR or just a quality Fast Skimmers get)

-Also,models are taken from the front when they’re shot. Or, to put it another way, when a unit gets shot at, models from the part of the unit closest to the firer are removed first.

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Re: 6th rumors

Post  Planes on Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:36 pm

So by the sounds of this, I could have a C'Tan and a Dreadknight be battle buddies?

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Re: 6th rumors

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