NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Spamus Eatus wrote:One thing I would REALLY like to stress here Stash, is that you have been gone for an edition or two you have said. You need to take the "does a unit make its points back" mentality and get rid of it. Now it is "does this unit fit into my army and allow it to complete the missions" If that involves blasting huge swaths of enemies away, then super.

Let's take the Executioner. It's 250 pts, at least. There is a chance you won't kill off 250 pts of enemy models, sure. HOWEVER, if you have ever been on the receiving end of one, it is a PRIORTY TARGET. You simply cannot allow it to live for too long or it will vaporize half your infantry. So, it gets focus fired/assaulted. Now in the turn or two that I am trying to knock the Exterminator out, the IG army is able to move into position, shoot at otherwise occupied units, etc. Since you are an edition or two out of the loop, it might take a few more games to appreciate the new levels of finesse that units have now.

The game is based on points. You have to look at what you get for your points which is kinda what you said. The executioner isnt a scoring unit, and although it has the potential to sweep a scoring unit off an objective, if it is actually alive at that point you are probably winning the game anyway. The only thing left to look at for its value is if it is going to kill as much of your opponents army as it takes up of yours.

System Commander wrote:
Im thinking they might adjust the rule . ? Its just that ordnance firing and forcing the others as snap shits that messng things up.

Youve still got the best flyer in the game though.. Just go buy another vendetta. You havent bought any new models in a few years anyway.. Time to upgrade!

Yeah vendettas are awesome, but Guard just doesnt have the same feel without 3 heavy support. Tim and I were musing at the H.S. options for guard the other day and death strikes are humorously enough looking better now. They are in theory the best unit in the game to 'cleanse' an objective lol

Russes are still good.

Even just the straight up battle tank. AV14 /w 3 HP is going to be firing that Pieplate Every turn, until it dies. Most of the heavy fire out there today is str 7/8. A lot more plasma and autocannons than ever before, which your Russ cares not a fig for.

I think one thing that people forget about 6th is that its next to impossible to "suppress" tanks anymore. A random hit from a lucky missile launcher doesn't stun/shake, or take off a weapon anymore. it just subtracts a hull point while you continue to drop pieplates on those longfangs. even said longfangs only have an 11% chance to remove the hullpoint.


PS: I'll take a vendetta over either necron flyer every day of the week Mark undercosted? why yes, i think so.

dont forget, 6th has a mission where HS options count as scoring (mission 3, big guns never tire), and another where FA are scoring (mission 4, the scouring). this includes vehicles, not just the infantry units in those slots (yes, really, it says so in the descriptions of those missions).

so if you roll that mission, your AV14 ordnance russky squadron also happens to be a lovely camping unit on your objective of choice.

and also, in a day and age where anyone who doesn't bother to magnetize the barrels/turrets/sponsons of their tanks is considered an idiot, why don't you just take all those tanks you said are sitting in storage and rework them to either magnetize the weapons so you can swap them out and thereby still use them all, or just buy some extra turrets on one of the many bitz stores online and just swap turrets out to the ones you want your tank to be? that small investment of time would mean you get to use all those tanks again regularly.

and if you dont feel confident in mag'ing your tanks, there's a handful of gamers in the city now that have the experience and tools to do it for you for a fair priced arrangement. even if you have 12 tanks, if you give them the magnets and the alternate gun bits, it might only cost you $20 to ask someone to do it for you.

Rhaevyn wrote:Russes are still good.

Even just the straight up battle tank. AV14 /w 3 HP is going to be firing that Pieplate Every turn, until it dies. Most of the heavy fire out there today is str 7/8. A lot more plasma and autocannons than ever before, which your Russ cares not a fig for.

I think one thing that people forget about 6th is that its next to impossible to "suppress" tanks anymore. A random hit from a lucky missile launcher doesn't stun/shake, or take off a weapon anymore. it just subtracts a hull point while you continue to drop pieplates on those longfangs. even said longfangs only have an 11% chance to remove the hullpoint.


PS: I'll take a vendetta over either necron flyer every day of the week Mark undercosted? why yes, i think so.

Well my lack of playing will show from not knowing that there is a lack of str 9 or more in the game. This is very surprising to me. The main problem with the Russ in the last edition was it just didnt do enough, and really the basilisk was a better choice.

dusktiger wrote:dont forget, 6th has a mission where HS options count as scoring (mission 3, big guns never tire), and another where FA are scoring (mission 4, the scouring). this includes vehicles, not just the infantry units in those slots (yes, really, it says so in the descriptions of those missions).

so if you roll that mission, your AV14 ordnance russky squadron also happens to be a lovely camping unit on your objective of choice.

and also, in a day and age where anyone who doesn't bother to magnetize the barrels/turrets/sponsons of their tanks is considered an idiot, why don't you just take all those tanks you said are sitting in storage and rework them to either magnetize the weapons so you can swap them out and thereby still use them all, or just buy some extra turrets on one of the many bitz stores online and just swap turrets out to the ones you want your tank to be? that small investment of time would mean you get to use all those tanks again regularly.

and if you dont feel confident in mag'ing your tanks, there's a handful of gamers in the city now that have the experience and tools to do it for you for a fair priced arrangement. even if you have 12 tanks, if you give them the magnets and the alternate gun bits, it might only cost you $20 to ask someone to do it for you.

My Russes date back about 10 years ago before heavy converting was even a though. They got alot of work getting stripped down and a new paint job.

The only way to magnetise a Russ Really would be to have removable sponsons now since the rules favour 'naked' Russes. The actually sponson weapons are not easily interchangeable. The plasma cannons and meltas are, but the heavy bolters are an older part which is all one piece on the sponson swivel.

Still 20 pts for 2 heavy bolters which only fire snap shots isnt really worth it, hence why I say naked russes are the way to go unless they change the rule in a FAQ.

The new Russ kits are easily mag'd. If you have older kits, point is 150% valid. PITA.

dusktiger wrote:

and also, in a day and age where anyone who doesn't bother to magnetize the barrels/turrets/sponsons of their tanks is considered an idiot,

Strong words... You're probably being quite rude to a lot of people......

"The rule was written that way to allow ordinance to fire with all other weapons. it was written to work in 5th."

We're arguing over RAI for an old edition in any case. I understand your frustration, I simply believe either Russ's or the Heavy Vehicle rule will be tweaked so that all weapons fire at full BS. Likely the later.

"My mistake on the executioner

You didnt mention exterminator someone else did...was easier then multiple posts"

Got it.

"Vanquisher cannon hits on a 4+ melta cannon hits easier than that especially since blasts are no longer half str if they dont land on a vehicle.
Melta cannon is Ap1 not 2"

Didn't have my codex handy, thanks for the correction. I think the range for the Vanquisher is a major plus, as well as getting double pen dice at full range. To-may-to/Ta-mah-to. I'm not sold on melta cannon hitting easier (you can still scatter 9" with the sucker), but I'd concede they are a lot closer than I thought.

Off-topic: My inner 12-year old is laughing because I said "double pen", " 9" ", and "sucker" in one paragraph.

"For long range infiltrating/deepstriking/outflanking small cheap units with a couple meltaguns at BS4 are a better option. Or a manticore since a manticore will probably hull point a vehicle to death better than the vanquisher."

Point taken, but I still think *ALL* the Russ's aren't *BAD*

"Well yeah this is kinda all about the demolisher being useless...really it was the only viable Russ option all along. It did the same thing the executioner did but for cheaper and was more versatile. You need to kill alot of marines to make up 250pts. Having my 3 Russes being not great last edition I was ok with cause I had other selections, my vanquisher being nerfed I ate too, but now 2 demolishers get to make $400 of tanks sitting in a box."

... Just a thought, you could cause a lotta havoc with 3 2-tank Leman Squadrons now....

"Perhaps the vanquisher might come out, but unless I am fighting a land rainder, I am just paying points for it to sit there looking schlong"

huh huh, you said schlong. he he huh he huh

"Mainly thought its frustraiting that GW still doesnt think things through."

This is my point, I think they have thought things thru ALOT, this is simply one of the things that has slipped thru the cracks. It wouldn't be hard to FAQ Heavy Vehicles to say "Heavy vehicles count as stationary for the purpose of firing weapons. If it fires an ordanance weapon, other weapons may be fired at full BS."

Mike, The disbeliever of Necron Superiority wrote:PS: I'll take a vendetta over either necron flyer every day of the week Mark undercosted? why yes, i think so.

NightScythe's are clearly better. Think of how good a Rifleman Dread is, now subtract 35pts, allow it to carry 15 models, fly, and give it a nice little firepower boost at the same time.

gluvzer wrote:

dusktiger wrote:

and also, in a day and age where anyone who doesn't bother to magnetize the barrels/turrets/sponsons of their tanks is considered an idiot,

Strong words... You're probably being quite rude to a lot of people......

I don't magnetize anything, although I've considered it. Then again, I have more money than sense. (which is why I play 40k, I guess... wheee Dark Angels army for Thiessen)

Lore Weaver wrote:

gluvzer wrote:

dusktiger wrote:

and also, in a day and age where anyone who doesn't bother to magnetize the barrels/turrets/sponsons of their tanks is considered an idiot,

Strong words... You're probably being quite rude to a lot of people......

I don't magnetize anything, although I've considered it. Then again, I have more money than sense. (which is why I play 40k, I guess... wheee Dark Angels army for Thiessen)

Yah, same here. I just figure I know what I want and get stubborn about it maybe (or idiotic lol ).

gluvzer wrote:

dusktiger wrote:

and also, in a day and age where anyone who doesn't bother to magnetize the barrels/turrets/sponsons of their tanks is considered an idiot,

Strong words... You're probably being quite rude to a lot of people......

only if they're intentionally trying to find an insult.

for most of 5th, the general attitude towards imperor-faction armies is you are honestly crazy and/or an idiot 'not' to magnetize your models so you don't have to buy a bunch of tanks to field every variant out there. 90% of the people in the tournament scene outside of saskatoon, and especially in other provinces, states south of the border, have this point of view. and it's only an insult if you take it out of context. im not saying "oh, you didnt mag your tanks? your a retard." im saying "you didnt mag your leman russ so it can swap between the 56 possible combinations of weapons? that's crazy; that saves you so much money if you're only going to field 3-6 lemans max in your army lists."

in stash's case, he says theyre the old ass metal ones which are a bugger to mod. *wtf shrug* fuck. my suggestions were based around assuming he had plastic ones like the predator which is really easy to magnetize. case in point, beau's tanks; apart from turning them into vindicators, he's able to turn several of his tanks into rhinos, razorbacks, or predators, and even add all the optional wargear apart from dozer blades, cause he's mag'd them all. i was hoping this was the case for stash's russ's cause i've looked at the plastic kits and they look easy to magnetize everything.

so the older ones made the entire sponson mount and weapon in...2? 3? metal pieces? that does make the converting more of a challenge...but if you think dropping those all together and just fielding them for the big gun is better, then you could remove them, and magnetize the whole thing so it can come on and off. maybe make a reinforced armor plate that sits there when the sponson's removed. something like that.

personally i'd keep the heavy bolters since they can snap fire and wont be wasted points, simply because weapon destroyed results are randomized now; your opponent cant pick what gun is knocked out. i've been playing it as look at the total number of weapons, and assign them a value on a D6. ie: predator with sponson HBs; main gun 1-2, left sponson 3-4, right sponson 5-6. for that reason, i'd want more than just the main barrel and the hull mounted gun. though half the points gets a pintle storm bolter and that gives you 3 weapon destroyed results to randomize between.

Soooo, I should be offended ONLY if I'm reading it thinking you are calling people idiots when you call people idiots; not in "context". lol! Check.. At least there is an understanding now. How does one convey themselves now?! It's so hard to understand!

You didn't say, "That's crazy" You said, "You're considered and idiot". But, oh well. I'm fully aware what this is about. I really don't care what you think or how well you know the tournament scene outside of Saskatoon (I'm sure it's amazing!). Blown out of proportion Essay reply FTW!!

And I'll just leave it at that and stop reading... *shrugs*

RE: meta cannon vs vanquisher

I did the statistics way back when blasts first were no longer were full str against vehicles if the centre scattered off

On a rhino sized model factoring in the possibilities of the 2D6 roll minum BS3...you hit 50% of the time. Now more results still equal a hit since you can scatter 2 inches further and still hit
so instead of rolling a 5 or less you can now roll a 7 or less

With a land raider the melta cannon hits even better going from 6 or less to 8 or less on 2D6 IF you scatter.

so against a land raider there are 10 out of 36 results that dont hit
i.e. 5/18

2/3* 5/18= .185 chance to miss a land raider

The melta cannon is almost BS5 against a land raider

Eh man, quit being so negative, i play Eldar. Aside from runes of warding, they didnt gain much in 6th and in fact lost their mech list (av12 just kinda dies where av 13/14 excels). So dont complain man, when gw gives you lemons, go win some games so you can win with a not OP codex (which i dont think really exists, though there are some codexes which are what i consider harder fights (necrons, and blood angels come to mind).

I am a HUGE idiot and I don't magnetize my models, so it must be true. I don't have my finger on the pulse of the tournament scene outside of Saskatoon either. Perhaps you guys could bring me up to speed? And Stash (I'll call you Stash on here because there is another James) Basilisks sucked in 5th and they suck now. AP3 = fail. Manticores rocked in 5th and they rock now. And Deathstrikes have always been awesome, just nobody uses them.

Ah Tim, you've been gone for awhile now and your welcome back post is absolutely bang on! I was thinking of a reply while reading through the thread and you said everything I was going to, apparently we "idiots" think alike!

Regarding the FAQ's I'm quite pleased with a lot of items that were clarified and/or errata'd. Incubi getting Ap2 weapons is certainly a nice plus for me.

@Mark - You can't seriously argue that a Night Scythe is better than a Vendetta...one is AV 12, the other 10. 1 has Str9 Ap2 guns, the other doesn't. I could keep going but I don't want to embarass you during election season

Night Scythes are 11/11/11 and have an amazing psudo-pie plate attack of chain lighting doom!

miv305 wrote:@Mark - You can't seriously argue that a Night Scythe is better than a Vendetta...one is AV 12, the other 10. 1 has Str9 Ap2 guns, the other doesn't. I could keep going but I don't want to embarass you during election season

*laughs*

The NightScythe is AV11 all around. How many points is a vendetta with the twin-linked las-cannons? The NightScythe averages 5 S7 *hits* I'll take 5 S7 hits over 2 S9 hits against *most* targets.

Tim, nice to hear from you again!

The FAQs still need some work (Stash's issue, a few others) but compared to what we are used to.... I just hope it keeps up. It seems like the FAQs would not get updated for a long while then 2 updates over 2 months. Over the last year or so GW seems to have made a real effort to get FAQs out, fill in gaps in the model range, etc.

Other than special characters, aren't the Cron and DE ranges complete and plastic?

C'Tan is Resin.

Av 12.
4 twin linked lascannons.
Troop capacity.
Outflanking/scout.
130 points.


Win.

Fair-enough. I withdraw my argument. Also, you can take them in squadrons of 3, right?

1170 points of destructive goodness.