Re: NEW FAQ's AVAILABLE

Lord_Commander_Stash Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:47 pm

Timbo wrote:And I'm saying that you are so very very wrong. The wrongest man in Wrongtown. Striking scorpions and howling banshees will gladly shoot and then assault most units, in cover or no. Fire dragons can shoot and assault select units, in the open only. How often do you get to shoot and then assault an infantry unit in the open in 40K? I guess it could happen. Fire dragons are a specialized unit for killing vehicles and monstrous creatures (non flying ones ). That's it, that's all they do. They have a sweet spot of about 5-7 models after which they become overkill and too expensive. They take up an elite slot which means they have an opportunity cost. Arguing they have a good "close combat statline" is madness. I'll let you in on a secret, any model with str 3 toughness 3 attacks 1 and a 4+ save with no access to wargear does not have a good close combat statline.

Your example about the chainfist hits is clearly wrong as well. Those wounds do not count towards combat result. 10 fire dragons will struggle to defeat 4 tactical marines, assuming they killed the other 6 in shooting.

You will only be fighting 4 tactical marines of you shot at a squad of more than 10. They should kill more than that. Also the way the new shooting rules work they will snipe the sergeant out with shere meltagun wounds.
Also Im saying they have the a good close combat stat line outside of marines. What I am hearing is that if you arent a marine you cant fight in assaults.

The way the rules are now they are much better than scorpions or banshees because of the way transports and assaulting works.

Eitherway does it really matter if your unit gets wiped out after it kills something much bigger than itself? Killing something huge then forcing your opponant to dedicate alot of resources to wipe them out completely while the rest of your army does something seems like a pretty good deal to me.

Lord_Commander_Stash Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:01 pm

miv305 wrote:I can't believe in the ~15 years of playing Eldar I never realized that Fire Dragons are awesome close combat troops!! How the hell did I not figure out that Str3 attacks clearly sweep away all the competition...

@Stash - Are you still upset that Fire Dragons were good in 3rd edition when they could shoot out of Faclons? That's the only way to explain your absurd fixation on a unit that no one has been afraid of for 5-6 years. Are Chaos Chosen the best unit evar! since they can have 5 guys with melta too?? Jesus man, get your head out of the clouds.

It gets even funnier when you try to say that Fire Dragons are better than IG Vet's. One scores; one doesn't. One has access to an awesome, cheap transport; one rides around in the most expensive out-of-date tin can and has zero ability to shoot out of it. But your right in saying that if 10 Tactical Marines were crossing the street the Fire Dragons could walk over and nuke 'em, not like Vet's who could also shoot them, throw a demo charge...oh wait, the Vet's can...

The problem were the falcons in that edition and also fire dragons were only str 6 and MORE expensive!

Chosen arent the best unit ever because they actually have to pay full price for their gear.

Yes that army book is out of date....I cant wait to see what they do in a new book...get the exarcs HtH gear back?

And yes vets can nuke a squad of marines of any variety....cause the rest of the army has a hard time doing that...they still dont have the versatility of nuking ANYTHING like fire dragons do. And yes they are scoring units, but with the points you save on their melta guns you are 1 point short of buying a guardian.

Also it should be said that Eldar got the shaft on the flyer front. Falcons if not wave serpents are orbital landers and should be fliers. In fact the valkyries and vendettas shouldnt be. They are normally orbital landers but only at armour 11. They are retrofitted with more armour (AV 12) to be front line units that slow them down to skimming speed

miv305 Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:51 pm

Oh Em Gee...

Stash, did you really just type that IG have trouble killing Marines who are standing in the open with shooting?? That may be stupidest thing I've ever read and I've read some stupid things (i.e. you suggesting that it takes "significant resources" to kill ten T3 4+ space elves or proclaiming that Basilisks are good).

Fire Dragons would be amazing if the game took place on a sheet of glass where my 160 pt army faced yours, I got to go first and we started 12 inches away. Unfortunately that's not how 40k works, most of my opponents figure out that walking up to Fire Dragons without shooting/assaulting them is bad.

Perhaps I'm 2/2 on the idiot meter, I don't magnetize anything and I'm unaware that 160 vs 160 pt tournaments are all the rage!

Spamus Eatus Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:58 pm

gluvzer Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:10 pm

There's no escalation here. This is normal Mike and Stash interaction. Stash must be trolling me thinks!

System Commander Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:27 pm

Oh thread.. Please end.

dusktiger Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:38 pm

you can do it robyn! *walter voice* "you haaaave the technology!"

Aegwymourn Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:41 pm

Good News! It's a suppository!

Roland Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:50 pm

This is one of those threads you just lock, frame, and hang on your wall.

....With magnets.

gluvzer Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:16 pm

Roland wrote:
....With magnets.

Too many Idiots to figure that out...

Lore Weaver Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:18 pm

'cmon guys. You all realize that Necrons are clearly superior.

Roland Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:22 pm

Can't magnetize all their options.

Idiots.

And they don't have snapfiring plasma cannons either. Obviously inferior.

System Commander Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:24 pm

Im actually curious to see if we can get stash to rant about something again.

Man.. You know what i live about apocalypse games.. Vortex grenades!

gluvzer Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:29 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:'cmon guys. You all realize that Necrons are clearly superior.

**RAGE QUIT**

Roland Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:30 pm

Hey, he's moved from Russ's to the Eldar codex. Don't worry I know what can really ramp this up.

Lucius Pattern drop pods.

Discuss.

gluvzer Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:53 pm

Boom Goes the Dynamite:

http://tosh.comedycentral.com/video-clips/web-redemption---boom-goes-the-dynamite

Lore Weaver Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:27 pm

System Commander wrote:Man.. You know what i live about apocalypse games.. Vortex grenades!

That's what I loved about 2nd edition. That and flipping the card over to show people that I had it. Putting that template on someones swanky new predator tank...

Timbo Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:17 pm

Stash does enjoy the trolling. The problem here is that he doesn't even have half a leg to stand on. Let's take a unit of 10 fire dragons, no exarch (we're arguing that fire dragons are the most undercosted model in all of 40K, remember?) and put them within 12" of 160 points of pretty much any troop unit(s) in the game in cover. Let's even give the fire dragons the first turn! I can't really see any situation where the fire dragons come out on top. But I agree, lock this thread Robyn and good riddance!

Termagant Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:23 pm

Thx you guys for making me laugh on this site for the first time in a long time.

And Stash, I'd even assault your fire dragons with my termagants. And probably win. S3 and T3 in combat sucks.

Timbo wrote:Stash does enjoy the trolling. The problem here is that he doesn't even have half a leg to stand on. Let's take a unit of 10 fire dragons, no exarch (we're arguing that fire dragons are the most undercosted model in all of 40K, remember?) and put them within 12" of 160 points of pretty much any troop unit(s) in the game in cover. Let's even give the fire dragons the first turn! I can't really see any situation where the fire dragons come out on top. But I agree, lock this thread Robyn and good riddance!

Deadlytoaster Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:10 am

System Commander wrote:Hehe.. Ohhh.. Mike is gonna be hearing about that one for a loooong time.

Prob as long as Stash can complain about Lemans..

No! Bad Robyn.. No more bringing up Lemans..

When life gives you Lemans....play Eldar. And magnetize some Necrons, and give them plasma guns (because you know thats the one thing the Necrons didnt already have).

One day, yes one day i will do my gold necrons and hippy monolith....then the world will rue the day that fire dragons were only 16 points a model, and not magnetized or an av 14 tank.

But seriously, Eldar jetbikes are still good and wave serpents still cost too much so does it really matter?

Timbo Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:02 am

Bikes in general got a nice boost I think. Hammer of wrath, armour saves versus dangerous terrain tests and +1 toughness versus (+1 toughness) is all good stuff. The only downside is the no first turn charges and no charging from reserves. I especially like attack bikes not getting instant killed by str 8-9 attacks anymore. Robyn, dust off those Khorne bikers!

Roland Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:11 am

Bikes have hammer of wrath?!

My deff koptas haven't done much in 6th. Not being able to get stuck in first turn hurt them I think.

You know you have issues when your smart phone auto corrects "koptas" to "lootas".

Brian: I shall now make a 6-9 Russ list, all with plasma sponsors. It shall be called "Leman-aid"

Lord_Commander_Stash Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:31 pm

Voth's sarcasm detector seems to be broken Razz

....and ohhh emmm geee whats with posting like a high school girl???

Paz Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:06 pm

Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:Voth's sarcasm detector seems to be broken

....and ohhh emmm geee whats with posting like a high school girl???

Hmm, interesting.

Mike, rebuttal?

Deadlytoaster Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:18 pm

Perhaps hes had too much Leman-aid?

And yeah Beau, Deffcoptas took a dive without being able to assault turn one, or assault off reserves. :S But yes bikes have hammer of wrath!

Also, played another game tonight and im not sure if warp spiders or swooping hawks are better at wrecking vehicles now with the changes to the interceptor rule for hawks.

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