**PLEASE READ**

A new option has been added to user profiles that will allow members to choose people who are on their friend and enemy lists. You can click on any users profile, and then choose to add them as a friend or as an enemy. This is significant in that putting someone on your enemy list is essentially like putting them on ignore. Once someone is your enemy you will not see their posts any longer.


=I= Pending Approval by the System Commander =I=

Finally I wont have to read your overly annoying posts cam! Just kidding...but not really

Is this really neccessary? This league is full of cliques and rifts as it is.

I understand that there are a lot of highly intelligent, and highly Opinionated members in this league - thats one of the things I like, is that I'm NOT surrounded by morons and sheep. We are each others peers, whether some of us want to admit it or not. We don't have to like each other, but we would do well to be able to peacably co-exist.

Do we really need a button to let us ignore people, and declare them as our "ENEMIES". isn't that a pretty damn strong way of phrasing it?

Personally I think we just need a lesson in diplomacy and tact.. It's possible to share an opinion without acting like it's the ONLY one viable, or insulting others. For example, Instead of calling someone stupid, saying their ideas are WRONG (without qualifications), or calling their post retarded, why can't people just say "I disagree with you because I think.."

Jemal wrote:Is this really neccessary? This league is full of cliques and rifts as it is.

I understand that there are a lot of highly intelligent, and highly Opinionated members in this league - thats one of the things I like, is that I'm NOT surrounded by morons and sheep. We are each others peers, whether some of us want to admit it or not. We don't have to like each other, but we would do well to be able to peacably co-exist.

Do we really need a button to let us ignore people, and declare them as our "ENEMIES". isn't that a pretty damn strong way of phrasing it?

Personally I think we just need a lesson in diplomacy and tact.. It's possible to share an opinion without acting like it's the ONLY one viable, or insulting others. For example, Instead of calling someone stupid, saying their ideas are WRONG (without qualifications), or calling their post retarded, why can't people just say "I disagree with you because I think.."

i agree with jim on this one it is already kinda cliquey this feature will make it worse.

As much fun as such a feature could be initially, I must concur with what has previously been stated. Such a feature would make Alex an unheard member of our league, and we just can't have that.

Terran wrote:As much fun as such a feature could be initially, I must concur with what has previously been stated. Such a feature would make Alex an unheard member of our league, and we just can't have that.

so true, so true

Oh snap! Reagan you've got a mean streak in ya boy! *Declares him an enemy!!!*

Caros wrote:Oh snap! Reagan you've got a mean streak in ya boy! *Declares him an enemy!!!*

Declaring people an enemy for no reason!!! Thats low! *Declares as an enemy*

Ok, thanks for the input guys, the option has been removed. Your going to be stuck with me now. Just remember it was your choice =D

Jemal wrote:
I understand that there are a lot of highly intelligent, and highly Opinionated members in this league

and then there are those who are highly opinionated, but dumb as a deku stick.

HolyCause wrote:

Jemal wrote:
I understand that there are a lot of highly intelligent, and highly Opinionated members in this league

and then there are those who are highly opinionated, but dumb as a deku stick.

Self reflection?

*L* j/k, we luv ya bro.

Jemal wrote:Is this really neccessary? This league is full of cliques and rifts as it is.

I understand that there are a lot of highly intelligent, and highly Opinionated members in this league - thats one of the things I like, is that I'm NOT surrounded by morons and sheep. We are each others peers, whether some of us want to admit it or not. We don't have to like each other, but we would do well to be able to peacably co-exist.

Do we really need a button to let us ignore people, and declare them as our "ENEMIES". isn't that a pretty damn strong way of phrasing it?

Personally I think we just need a lesson in diplomacy and tact.. It's possible to share an opinion without acting like it's the ONLY one viable, or insulting others. For example, Instead of calling someone stupid, saying their ideas are WRONG (without qualifications), or calling their post retarded, why can't people just say "I disagree with you because I think.."

This post is retarded.

If people seriously want a power league, i will even throw together a quick forum for it, and give administration to whoever chooses to run it. I wont promise that it will get the love that i put into the other forums that i made, but it seems that many of us probably dont care much for nice looking forums, as that again kind of falls into the catagory of hobby. If all you want to do is crush people on the tabletop, then a forum would need only provide a couple of categories, one to set up games, one for general discussion, and probably one for rules discussion. Graphics and visual appeal would not matter. =I=censor=I=, piece of cake, let me know what you want to call it.

*Mad props to the system commander for his work on hunters though. I did the initial layout and graphics, but he has put on all the finishing touches that have made it so nice to look at, and so well organized*

That actually makes all kind of sense Robyn and Cam. Hunters for the casual, hobby group, and another forum for people who are geared towards the more competitive aspects of the game.

Quick question to Cam and Robyn...

Do you care if the powergamers have a place to put their dumbass posts? Let them make their own bed's to =I=censor=I= in.

Robyn, you don't work for GW anymore. I don't know about you but I feel free as a bird now (And this bird you cannot change!). You're doing this for personal enjoyment and gratification. I think you should either get someone else to take over and let it be their problem or the better solution of kicking the offenders out. If people are fed up with someone, and you've TOLD them to change their behaviour and they haven't then they're only two possibilities.

-They are unable to change their behaviour
-They are unwilling to change their behaviour

Either way, =I=censor=I= 'em. Do you really wanna support/endorse a league that goes against the base tennants you guys have for the hobby? How about the real world practical issues of having to coordinate league nights at the den? How about terrain? I put a lot of work into that =I=censor=I= and most of it is busted all to hell. Is the new power game league gonna give a =I=censor=I= about terrain?

It's seems a case of the minority pushing the trend of the league and making it less enjoyable for the majority. Happened in fantasy during the heyday too. Best thing I could've done in hindsight was kick the =I=censor=I= people out. Unfortunately, GW would have taken away my free toys. That problem doesn't exist now. Start cuttin'!

This one is up to Robyn, and he has my support in whatever he wants to do. I have been away for quite some time, so i can only offer limited input on the matter of who the specific troublemakers are, or if things can be worked out in a diplomatic fashion.

ScottRadom wrote:This post is retarded.

Was that just a VERY poor attempt at humour, or is there an issue we need to talk about? You're recent posts have seemed rather rude and profane, and I'd like to know if there's a personal issue I'm unaware of? I don't recall ever doing or saying anything offensive (Heck I don't think I've even met you IRL), and I can't see how anybody could honestly take offense to a post about being civil (Which is exactly what my previous post was). I can only hope it was just a bad joke and I'm misunderstanding.

Also, IF I'm one of these powergamers you guys are talking about (You seem to have specific individuals in mind), I'd like to know.. now and publicly, and know WHY people think so, so that I can defend myself.

I've got to say, if the people who host and admin this site feel that their experience of the game has been degraded by the recent community you proceed as you see fit. This is the internet not a democrat assembly, if you have felt the need for an ignore feature you've also probably felt the desire to ban some one adding the enemy feature would be like glaring at someone you don't like and not doing anything about it. Also I'd like to add , cheers to lexmechanic, your offer to create a place for the alternate community is somthing that I find very admirable.

I noticed this post tonight right as I was getting ready for bed over two hours ago. To say that I was angered by some of what I saw is the understatement of the year. To my credit, I walked away from the computer after writing my scathing reply, took a half hour to vent, and have come back to give out something a little bit more proper.

Frankly, I feel a little insulted. In the nine months since my household joined the hunters forums, new players like Jim, Myself and others have been receiving flak in increasingly large amount. On top of that, I think everyone has noticed the nice divide between players that have arrived within the last year and players who have not.

To be honest I don't quite understand the source of this animosity. On both the forums and at the Den I've gone out of my way to be as polite and respectful as possible, on the rare occasion where annoyance shines through (Such as my league finals match, Damn dice) I at the very least try to apologize after the fact. I know some of the more casual, senior players disagree with the way that we sometimes play, focusing on trying out builds, breaking down statistics. I know some people have interpreted this as a "Win at all cost, powergaming RAW!" style of gaming, to most of us it really isn't. We crunch numbers, we got into the game as a game, and many of the newer players are still trying to pick up the hobby aspects.

Hell, Nine months after I joined and I just now managed to correctly line highlight a tank.

If the style of play really bugs people that much, then Jim, Tyson and Myself will happily run a competitive league on another night. Believe it or not, most of us (Alex!!!) didn't come here to "Pwn n00bz" We come to enjoy the section of the hobby that we're good at, and perhaps learn a bit about the parts we're not so good at. To this end I'm gonna throw a poll up in the General asking if anyone will support the idea. We will be the ECW to your Smackdown if need be.

Finally however, I do want to point out one thing. Radom, Your post is offensive. While I have seen people get into somewhat heated arguments over the forums in the time I've been coming here, over rules and excommunications you have the honor of being the only poster to seriously suggest kicking out players because of a difference in play style, worse yet you did so in disgustingly low brow and profane way. Censor blocks or no I'm sure every person on the forums knows word for word what you said and I think it reflects badly on you and the hobby.

I know next to everyone in the league, I have watched every single person play fun, civil games with one another, even when one side busted out the most ridiculous of power lists. As far as I know you haven't been attending the league in the nine months I've been here, which makes me wonder where you get off judging others.

I do apologize for the personal comment in a public forum, but I count just about every person in the league as a friend, so whether the 'powergamers' in your post were meant to be myself, my roommates, or any of the league members, I refuse to let that stand unanswered.

I heavily support having a separate league for some hardcore power gaming, I advocate playing a casual league in my serious posts, but every once in a while I'll call up a buddy and tell him to dust off the lash princes and 3 land raiders and meet up to grind some serious... hobby glue and plastic? anyway.

I'd like to give running the 'ard boyz league a try, see if it will work out long term. I'd definitely would like to continue playing in the casual hunters league and play lists that look good and are well painted and hold my pinkie out while I drink tea (as sarcastic as that is I really do enjoy the casual style of the hunters league) I also want to have some seriously hard fought battles where I don't have to catch an eyeroll about my 9 killa kans, 2 deff dreads and 15 deff kopta's.

But since I have ALOT of free time on my hands for the next little while I'd like to give this a shot, a gritty RAW punchup with some eye roll lists, play to win league.

And just so no one's shy I've made a list of people I want to throw dice at, literally. I think these guys know how to put plasma to demon prince and scything talon through chimera armour and hope that they can put up with some good natured smack talk and some hard fought games.

Tyson, Jim, Alex, Adam, Adam, Matt K, Matt K's mom, Joe, other people I havn't met yet, although that guy playing 7 chimera's and 2 valkyries is high on my list too. Basically if you look at your list and think it will "Pwn noobs faces off like a f-ing boss!" I want to see you put your mouth where my Nobz boots are and suck some ... table?

I will talk to Darren about it either tomorrow or Wednesday, I really can't answer any questions about it until I've had a chat with Darren. Cam, thanks for the offer for the forums I would like to take you up on that and can hopefully help you out since I don't think you have much interest in playing in this league and it's a very generous offer to help out.

Hopefully people who enjoy tough lists can come out play people who share that belief, because we're a divided ... club? (collection of nerds lets say) there's no question, so why fight it, we play in the league for different reasons, so lets just play different leagues. I don't think ignoring people will fix anything, so I propose this.

Jemal wrote:

ScottRadom wrote:This post is retarded.

Was that just a VERY poor attempt at humour, or is there an issue we need to talk about? You're recent posts have seemed rather rude and profane, and I'd like to know if there's a personal issue I'm unaware of? I don't recall ever doing or saying anything offensive (Heck I don't think I've even met you IRL), and I can't see how anybody could honestly take offense to a post about being civil (Which is exactly what my previous post was). I can only hope it was just a bad joke and I'm misunderstanding.

It's a joke. It's actually VERY funny.

Oh, dont get me wrong, there was something very fun about playing a 2 lash list... for me anyway. Everyone else absolutely hated it.. and actually the legend of my 2 lash list has become totally overblown. It kind of makes me laugh, because the list i played is nothing like the one that everyone else says i played. In fact i think i got =I=censor=I= this weekend from someone who never even played my double lash list But, i am not above reproach, and if im going to advocate balanced lists its only right that people tear on me for my hypocritical behavior.

You could count on me to show up with any tournament army i plan to take on the road. Even if it was balanced for tournament play, it would be nice to see what the crazy lists could do to it. Still, i 100% believe in the causal hunters league. It is why i have put so much into the hobby in the past, and why it is what it is today. Despite our bickering, we have a stronger club here than anywhere else i have been in western Canada. Some of us, the more vocal guys who have been around a long time, know what can happen when a league grows to this size and there are extreme differences in what members want to see. The general rule is that it falls apart. Its one of the reasons Mr. Radom is so opinionated.

When i first got into 40k, it was fantasy that was absolutely huge. I mean it was so big that Scott managed to convince Darren to keep the Den open until midnight just so everyone could get their games in. However, being limited in what he could do with the league because he was a GW grey knight, he had to watch the Ravening Hordes basically fall apart. He has been around a long time, and has seen it happen to almost every other league out there, and its not just him. Ryan G, Mike V, Robyn, Scott... all these names probably sound familiar. They saw it happen to the Ravening Hordes, and to the old Mordheim league when it was up to 30 players years ago. Going back even further, several blood bowl leagues fell because of it. It has happened to our gaming convention. That is why people are fighting so hard, when they say they have been around and know what will happen, they really do. Some of them are themselves reformed power gamers, who now admit that leagues and events fell apart in large part because of their actions.

Since i got involved in the hunters, i have only ever wanted Saskatoon to have the best gaming club PERIOD. If that means kicking people out, or being mean for the greater good so be it. I would much rather we all get along, and find ways to exist despite our differences, but that is not how the world turns.

Alright, im getting pretty drowsy, and im afraid that im loosing my train of thought. To sum it up, i will do the site, and i will pay league fees for both, and play in both, though primarily in the hunters.

The most important thing however is that you want to call it the ArdBoyz League. That is f'n brilliant! It sounds so cool that i will definitely have to lend a hand, and hopefully trash some of you fuckers with my crazy double lash list of DOOM!!

Caros wrote:Finally however, I do want to point out one thing. Radom, Your post is offensive. While I have seen people get into somewhat heated arguments over the forums in the time I've been coming here, over rules and excommunications you have the honor of being the only poster to seriously suggest kicking out players because of a difference in play style, worse yet you did so in disgustingly low brow and profane way. Censor blocks or no I'm sure every person on the forums knows word for word what you said and I think it reflects badly on you and the hobby.

It's okay to be offended! That's the point!

Running league, tournies, and dealing with problem players is an area I have a lot of experience with. My words are from the heart. If you are one of the people who is causing players to opt to leave the current format of the Hunters of the Warp league, and if you've been made aware that your behaviour is doing so but have opted not to alter your behaviour, you should be banned. Immediately!

As for low brow and all that =I=censor=I=, deal with it or scroll to the next post. Or maybe I can get banned. Maybe even PM the admin of this site and complain that you find my posts vulgar, low brow, or whatever else you are worried about. Does it REALLY reflect poorly on the hobby? Seriously? Does it make 40K look like a lesser activity because you filled in some lines on a censored forum? Reflect poorly on me, sure I guess. BUt seriosuly all the work and effort myself and others (but seriously, mostly myself) put into building the actual tables you play on, most of the terrain you use is undone by a post telling Robyn to swing the banhammwer on any people who are taking more out of the league then they are putting in? I guess that's the way of things.

If you really took an enormous amount of offense to the content of my post, and not just the language, then I'd like you to seriously consider the big picture. It may very well be that the way you enjoy the hobby is driving others away. This divide you speak of is likely veterans vs. new guys, right? So consider that someone who has sunk thousands of dollars and hours into a hobby would rather walk away from a league they've been part of for years than opt to sit across a table (that I built, by the way. Did I mention that?) than play against yourself. That may actually be the case.

SO get riled up by my post! Get offended! But for =I=censor=I= sake, LISTEN! There is a problem in the league. A problem that is causing people to no longer want to be a part of it. If you're part of the problem and don't want to change the way you act than HELL yes you should get banned. That's experience talking son!