special rule changes

just flipping through the rules seeing whats changed.
counter attack- no longer needs leadership test (berserker buff!)
jink- must be declared before hits are rolled. gives 4+ cover and unit can only snap shot
move through cover- now no longer slowed when charging (yay!)
sniper- now str 4 when targeting tanks
vector strike is now ap2 but only 1 hit vs something not flying and d3 hits vs flyers/fmc's that are swooping/zooming

anyone else find anything interesting?

judchic wrote:
move through cover- now no longer slowed when charging (yay!)

are you still initiative 1 though?

Yup, they still cry.

also infiltrate changed. now it just reads "units that contain at least one model with this special rule" so no more debate over that.
*BUT*
independent characters without infiltrate cannot join a unit of infiltrators during deployment.

So, an IC with Infilitrate *should* be able to join a squad, confer Infilitrate, and drag the squad with him, yes?

says a character can start the game with a unit so makes sense he can

judchic wrote:says a character can start the game with a unit so makes sense he can

Only by deploying in coherency with the unit, so no.  No dice.

"an independent character can begin the game already in a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in reserve, by you informing your opponent which unit has been joined."

I read that as you just have to follow the coherency requirement and he starts with the squad.

It would have taken all of a half sentence of extra text in either infiltrate or the independent character rule and none of this would have been an issue...

Jessie, when are you deploying him in coherency with the unit?

If he's infiltrating, the unit has to be on the board before him. It would then follow that they didn't infiltrate.

coherency and reserves don't allow infiltrate, hopefully a faq, lulz.

Lore Weaver wrote:Jessie, when are you deploying him in coherency with the unit?

If he's infiltrating, the unit has to be on the board before him.  It would then follow that they didn't infiltrate.

So we have 2 sides to this argument... again....

Going to now have to wait for a bloody FAQ to figure out if that 25 bucks I spent on Cypher was worth it.
Joy

Matt- Jesus dude it's been one day. Give it a bit.

Paz wrote:Matt- Jesus dude it's been one day. Give it a bit.

And? Lol.
I eagerly await my FAQ, I just get to bitch in the mean time
yupp

Only 25 for the model? What about the 15 for the official daraslate?

Hmm.. im confused by the confusion.. i must be missing something. 

The IC has infiltrate.. joins a unit.. but cant give them infiltrate? Because of the timing when he joins and deploys?

I read it as he starts with a unit and as a result must be deployed within 2" of it.
the argument is because he is deployed within 2" the squad must be on the table already.

Id still allow him to join a unit beforw the game.. and let them infiltrate. Goofy otherwise.  

System Commander wrote:Hmm.. im confused by the confusion.. i must be missing something. 

The IC has infiltrate.. joins a unit.. but cant give them infiltrate? Because of the timing when he joins and deploys?

It is the exact same problem as 6th. Since they don't clarify how the USR interacts with IC joining units. The wording is still muddy and vague enough that a clear RAW argument fails to happen.

the rules are actually quite clear on how an Independant character joins a unit, and niether of those ways is "before deployment"

1: Be deployed within 2" of an already deployed( or currently deploying)unit( which wouldn't have infiltrate until this event happens)
2: Informing your opponent that the character is joining another unit that you have already declared is in reserve.

the wording for deployment could be worded better, because the argument could be made that "deployment" all happens at the same time and isn't really done one unit at a time.  but even if this were the case, (which its not because the rules below reference a unit that is already "in reserve" ) then there wouldn't be a trigger for conferring the special rule of "infiltrate" on the unit being joined until deployment actually happens.  so either way you look at it, the rules as written do not allow a character to confer infiltrate upon another unit.....

the deployment page is one of the worst in the book for not giving any hard and fast rules for us rules lawyers, as it gives very little guidance and actually references other deployment methods, such as putting a giant fuckin sheet down the middle of the table so you can both deploy in secret....

I, being a chaos player don't Like the RAW, as it reduces the effectiveness of one of our best warlord traits. but the rules don't seem overly ambiguous to me.
And, if we as a community want to allow people to do this, i am ok with it.

I never use this.. but am 100% behind it being the correct way for any army.