Scenario changes - next league

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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:21 pm

hard to know which turn the game will end on, and have to time it pretty good to zoom close one turn, then hover in on the last turn. so it'll only be able to use 50% of games, and be effective 33% of those, as the game can end on turns 5/6/7 and if you hover too soon, your a sitting duck. so it has a 16.5% chance of being useful during 1/5 of the missions.

I dont have a pony in the race iether way. so i'm not fussed, just playing devils advocate.

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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Aegwymourn on Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:26 pm

I can see your points for sure. Like I said as more people get fliers/anti-fliers it will become a non-issue. I think I am still just grumpy at fliers in general. Razz

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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Roland on Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:52 pm

Hadnt thought about KP that way, spot on Robyn.

Not sure what you are feeling the issue with having all three force org Secondaries in effect is. Since they would be in effect for both players, you would basically be saying everything is scoring. Since the 3 would be equally random, wouldn't this encourage more balanced list?

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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Roland on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:59 pm

REVISED: Preparing for a battle.

Choose an army. Set points.

Set up terrain: any method

Roll for Mission and Deployment Style

Mission
1- Crusade
2- Purge the Alien
3- Capture the Flag- The Emporors Will and Relic are combined into "Capture the Flag". Bases are 3VP and the Relic is 5VP.

Deployment Style- As before

Place any objectives.

Roll for Secondary Objectives. Roll once on each table.

Table 1:
1- First Blood!
2- I Have the High Ground!- you have the model whose base is closest to the ceiling (Zooming flyers and zooming MC's do not count)
3- Lay of the Land- You control more table quarters than your opponent (determined by value of model in each quarter.)

Table 2:
1-Slay the Warlord
2-Linebreaker
3-A General is only as good as his troops- 1 VP if you slay all your opponents Troop choices.

Table 3:
4) Send in the Vets!: Elites (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.
5) Cavalry: Fast Attack Choices (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.
6) The Big Guns: Heavy Support Choices (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.

Roll for Warlord Traits: Roll a d6 and choose a trait from any table available to you.

Roll for Psychic Powers.

Roll off for deployment. The player who won the roll off chooses their deployment zone.

Roll off to see who deploys first, the player who won the roll-off chooses to go first or second.

The players alternate deploying. The player who deploys first (P1) places any Forts, the P2 places any forts.
P1 then deploys their entire force except infiltrators and reserves. P2 then does likewise.
infiltrators- roll off, then alternate placing infiltrators
Scout moves- roll off, then alternate redeployments.

Seize the Initiative.


I'm blanking for the last secondaries. As you can see, the VP's possible are consistant. Table 1 grants 1 VP to one side only. Table 2 can grant up to 1 VP to each side. Table 3 enables more scoring units, but at a cost of up to 3VP. Having it evenly spread and always as a secondary should encourage balanced lists.

This summarizes Tom's suggested changes to starting a battle (which nicely solves the dick moves with objective and promotes the Law of Wheaton). I included the Warlord trait system I think 99% of us are using. As it is, it will still throw out the occasional fart. "Wow. I get FNP if I am within 3" of an objective. That'll work great in Purge the Alien."

I'd honestly love to get it so each missions Primary Obj came to the same Victory points, as it'd make it easy to translate for tournaments. I think this would work just going on pure Win/Loss (Battle Points unfortunately tends to encourage baby seal clubbing, so as to get max points. Win/Loss means when the game is well in hand, you can throw your opponent a bone and let his warboss krump your guys a bit so he has some fun too. That said I know it can be frustrating to have a close win or draw snatched away.)


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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  System Commander on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:22 pm

This is getting really close. I'm actually interested in coming with some more objectives for league play. For a tournament, I think this would work good. For the league, I'm thinking towards the line of maybe 5-10 scenarios and perhaps 5'ish deployment types. Scenarios definitly do not have to be complex.. one primary objective with a special rule of some sort is usually what I tried to opt for when creating them.

I want the option to be there.. BUT, keep in mind this would only be optional. If you hated the new rules for some reason you could play any system you wanted. That being said, Ive little time lately anyway and I have a feeling our final decision will be close to what Beau has here. Smile


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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  superdeuxlol on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:51 pm

I like it except I might skip table 3. Just personal preference. I actually really enjoyed High Ground at the team tournament so I am happy to see it included as a possible secondary objective.

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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  System Commander on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:34 pm

Building off of Beau's tables and secondaries, I've adjusted it a bit and added some new options. Some secondaries might need some revisions or changes if people have other ideas. Not sure, might be getting a bit bogged down by adding more. Beau's table looked nice and simple, three rolls. THe procedure he laid out will stand though, objectives must be deployed before rolling for deployment zones.

I had originally included Linebreakers and Slay the Warlord in all missions, with one roll on the chart at the bottom. I then adjusted it to include Linebreaker as always in effect, with two rolls on the bottom chart.

I'm wondering if I should just include Linebreaker in the big chart, with three rolls for all random secondaries, or move it back to having Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker always in effect with one roll on the chart.

I'm also looking at having 6 missions. Purge the Alien, Crusade, Beau's combo Missions, and 3 others variant types. Probably 2 mire objective style and another kill point style. Or, leaving one open which will change every 2-4 weeks.

How are things looking based on the following?

Secondary Objectives

Always in effect:

- Linebreaker

Roll a D6:

1 - Cavalry - FA scoring, 1vp each destroyed or fleeing at the end of the game
2 - Big Guns Never Tire - HS scoring, 1vp each destroyed or fleeing at the end of the game
3 - Send in the Vets - Elites scoring, 1vp each destroyed or fleeing at the end of the game
4 - Our Commander must Survive! - keep your Warlord alive to get 1vp
5 - Marked for Death - pick an enemy unit before deployment, if you destroy that unit you get 1vp
6 - Valuable Commodity - Keep your highest point unit alive! 1vp if you do (fleeing at the end of the game counts as destroyed, vehicles must be wrecked or destroyed)


Roll Twice on the following table :

1-3

1 - Slay the Warlord
2 - A General is only as good as his troops - if all your opponents troops selections are destroyed, 1vp
3 - First Blood
4 - Table Quarters - who controls the most gets 1vp
5 - Control the Center - mark the middle of the board, it's treated as an objective worth 1vp (if there's already an objective within 6" of the center, it's now worth +1vp)
6 - Elites are worth 2 kp each (kill point missions only, reroll if objective mission)

4-6

1 - Traitor or Heretic? Chooses a single individual model of your opponents. If it's destroyed or fleeing at the end of the game 1vp
2 - High Ground, base must be at least 2" off table (whoever has the highest, 1vp)
3 - Behind the Lines - If you control an objective in your opponent's deployment zone, get +1vp (objective missions only, re-roll if kill point mission)
4 - Strength in Combat! - if you wipe out an enemy unit in an assault, +1 vp (doesn't apply to vehicles and you can only get the bonus once)
5 - Keep em alive! Choose one of your units, if you keep it alive all game - 1vp
6 - Cut off the Head - +1 vp for each HQ destroyed (stacks with Slay the Warlord)

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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:10 pm

The only problem I am having is that 6th isn't exactly the fastest edition and now there are going to be more rolling for tables of victory points. And they will have to be written down so there isn't confusion later. Don't get me wrong I like how they look and would "spice it up" a bit. Just seems like a lot of extra time and recording.

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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Roland on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:30 pm

A few suggestions for secondaries:

+1 If Highest Point Enemy unit is wiped out (or falling back) at the
end of the game
+1 If your Highest Point unit is alive (not falling back or off board) at
the end of the game
+1 If you have more total units alive (not falling back or off board)
than your opponent at the end of the game.
+1 If you have wiped out (falling back also counts) all Enemy non-
Scoring Units (excluding Independent Characters) at the end of
the game
+1 If you have more Scoring units alive (not falling back or off
board) than your opponent at the end of the game.

For missions....
Something like a combo of Pillage (from Battle Missions) and the Scouring. 6 objectives, evenly placed, (or say 3 ea to be placed by each player, at least 2 of which should be out of your own deployment zone). After Scout moves, the objectives values are reveiled (4,3,3,2,2,1). Points are generated as per the Pillage mission.

Thats all I got now.

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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  System Commander on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:39 pm

I disagree.. Its only an extra couple rolls at the beginning when your rolling dice anyway. .. But remembering or writing it down especially at the beginning might be a pain.

But.. Like i said u dont have to use it all if you like the current setup. This is just some rough brainstorming for us that do have a problem with the current setup.

In editions past we've done similar things without issue. If time is ever going to be an issue just agree ahead.of time on a scenario. I like the extra randomness of the secondaries. Planning every game to try and take out.an hq or deny first blood has worm on me personally pretty quick. Of all the scenario issue.. My biggest problem is objectives after deployment followed by first blood..

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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  System Commander on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:42 pm

I do really like the scouring points objectives.. As long as you dont know deployment types first. That being said.. Even havng a 4,3 and 3 close to your deployment can be a real pain for your opponent. But still make for an interestng game.

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Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Roland on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:50 pm

We could simplify, especially if these will be posted at the den. Table one is a blue die, table 2 is in Red, table 3 in white. Roll all three at one.

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