Scenario changes - next league

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Scenario changes - next league

Post  System Commander on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:11 am

I'm looking at changing the scenario list for the upcoming league, but want to start a discussion and see how people feel about it.

The scenarios in the book arent super bad.. But I would say the definite lack a few things.

Some of the things I'd like to discuss include the order or operations for games (knowing deployment zone before setting up objectives can be frustrating), incorporating a few different battle points in addition to first blood and linebreaker.. Or making a list of say 6 and rolling 2 randomly before the game, not that we needmore stuff to roll but an option) different deployments (Ive learned to love and hate hammer and anvil, but I dont think 1/3 of all games should be that deployment.

Im not looking at changing the world, but just making a few tweaks. Before any naysayers pipe up about playing the game as is, we've done this many times in the past. As well, all that counts at the end of day is that a game is played a result recorded. If your against any changes remember you and your opponent can play any scenario in the world if you both agree.. I just wants results afterwards. These will be league "recommendations" only.

I know many people have some major and minor issue with the missions so I just want to put our heads together and see what we can come up with to help iron out thoseissues. Mark's been doing some scenario tweaking and taking a logical approach to it. The last few leagues of 5th edition we moved over into using the NOVA missions which I thought were great.

I'm also hoping to go back to the special scenario every two weeks type of format.. where I post a scenario and you get bonus points for playing it at least once in that timeframe.



Last edited by System Commander on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total

System Commander
System Commander

Posts : 4693
Join date : 2008-02-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Roland on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:20 am

A few personal opinions.

Not a fan of objective all along the back lines in deployment zones. I tend to like missions like the relic, because the obj is in no man's land.

Maybe 1-3 Dawn of war, 4-5 Vanguard, 6 hammer and anvil?

If we can come up with 3 more secondary objectives (table quarters, high ground, etc) we could just roll 3 times for secondaries.

_________________
Habes obdura si ista sis nugax - family proverb

Roland
Lord of Titan

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : Saskatoon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:24 am

Dom, what've you done with Robyn! *kidding*

As long as we keep it easy, I think it's fine. I don't think I've played a single game this league that's used Mysterious Terrain. I've played a few games where Mysterious Objectives were not used (some on purpose, some by accident).

I think having myserious objectives can be interesting and fun, but should be optional. I like having them in for a shot at getting Skyfire, +1 Cover, 1/2 charge range, and re-roll 1's when shooting.

Mysterious Terrain is a pain.

I'm fine with something as simple as "book missions" or "league missions" and have our own 3 missions or something. I like the bay area open idea of playing two missions at once, a primary and a secondary, then the first blood, line breaker, and slay the warlord counting as +1 each.

(For example, if you win on objectives, you get +4, if you win on kill points, you get +2, then the bonus things are each worth +1)

Whatever we do, we'd have to play test it a bit to make sure it's fair and easy to do.

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  System Commander on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:27 am

Sorry about the original post. I was in the middle of editing it on my computer but you guys responded to fast. Fixed up now.. Smile I have to learn to NOT type on my phone. I can't read what I'm typing half the time and it appears my thumbs cannot listen to what brains tells them to do.

System Commander
System Commander

Posts : 4693
Join date : 2008-02-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  System Commander on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:36 am

My biggest issues right now are the deploymentof objectives after zones have been chosen. It's never adversely effected me at all, but I've had it backfire on my opponent a few times. I also really don't like the game being over before it begins. I know it comes down to creating a list that can deal with all the scenarios.. but sometimes you can't plan for them all. Getting stuck playing Hammer and Anvil deployment where your opponent has 3 objectives deep in hiw deployment and you have no quick way of getting there for three turns is really rough. Thats just one example but there are a lot more out there.

I like the idea of primary and secondary, as well as creating scenarios. Mysterious objectives are horrible.. especially for every single objective. I've been maing lists lately to deny First Blood, simply because I tend to always cough it up. I'd like to be able to take some rhinos again sometime. Small things like that would be nice to alter or tweak.

I'll take a look at the tournaments and other leagues and see how they've switched up the scenarios.

System Commander
System Commander

Posts : 4693
Join date : 2008-02-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:46 am

In the Bay Area Open missions, they do a couple of neat things with objectives.

- Crusade Objectives (always 3) must be placed outside of either players deployment zone
- Scouring Objectives, each player must place 2 in opponents zone and 1 in no-mans land, then out of the ones you placed, one is worth 1, another 2, and lastly 3, all determined randomly.
- Big Guns Objectives are each player must place 2 in opponents zone

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  smackman on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:53 pm

A Few thoughts:

- Change the game to placing objectives before choosing deployment, I do this in almost all of my games of 6th ed and no ones complained. There is a reason for the changes to this setup from last edition, fortifications. You need to place fortifications before terrain is placed to allow for space, and you don't want to setup a fortification on your opponents deployment zone so you need to know your side before the terrain is placed. It makes sense to then setup terrain and then setup objectives as in 5th edition to give more of a narrative to where the objectives are placed. However in the games that I have played we've setup terrain, rolled for mission, rolled for deployment style, placed objectives, rolled for deployment zone and then if terrain needs to be nudged to allow for the placement of a fortification then its no big deal (This is where the first rule of 40k, "Don't be a total dickhead!" comes into play, unfortunately GW has not embossed this on the cover of all their rulebooks as per my suggestion)

- Don't make primary and secondary objectives the same way we had in 5th ed, the new style of objectives with primary worth 3pts and secondary worth 1pt is the best thing to happen to 40k, The game feels much more dynamic that way.

- Don't change the deployment styles to suit the army's that most people play, Tau and guard love Hammer and Anvil deployment as it advantages them most. No game is decided before the first turn, slight advantages are gained but if you roll for first turn / deployment zone after placing objectives then placing objectives deep in "your" own deployment zone becomes very costly when it turns out to be your opponents deployment zone.

-Leave rolling for deployment style as it is in the book.

- Adding in some more objectives worth 1 victory point would be cool.

Take this suggestions as pure gospel, I will not lead you astray,

Amen.

smackman
Inquisitor Lord

Posts : 754
Join date : 2008-11-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Roland on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:10 pm

I'm with Tom on obj, I'd rather see additional seconadaries, and if you are playing 2 primaries simultaneously, one is worth more/tweaked/etc.

Ex. Emporers will and Relic.
The Emporors Will obj are worth 3 VP and the Relic is worth say 5.

Crusade/Purge the Alien could be a very good all around basic mission.

_________________
Habes obdura si ista sis nugax - family proverb

Roland
Lord of Titan

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : Saskatoon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Planes on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:53 pm

Relic has always felt like half of a mission to me. Using it as a mixer would go a long way to help it, I think.

_________________
I use every part of the Space Buffalo.

Planes
Lord of Titan

Posts : 3145
Join date : 2011-11-27
Location : Mai'laun

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Roland on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:46 am

Here's a few thoughts.

Deployment: Same
Missions: Only Crusade and Purge the Alien stay.
The Emporors Will and Relic are combined into "Capture the Flag". Bases are 3VP and the Relic is 5VP.
Secondary Objectives: roll 3d6, rerolling any duplicates
1) First Blood
2) Slay the Warlord
3) Linebreaker
4) Send in the Vets!: Elites (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.
5) Cavalry: Fast Attack Choices (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.
6) The Big Guns: Heavy Support Choices (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.

I'm tending to go with the line of thinking that 1/2 the objectives you place (rounding up) must be outside your deployment zone.

I'm aware this is rough. That's why I'm posting:) Any comments/criticism/loopholes I'm not seeing?

_________________
Habes obdura si ista sis nugax - family proverb

Roland
Lord of Titan

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : Saskatoon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:04 pm

Thats actually fairly neat and tidy Beau. I wouldn't mind using that at all.

_________________
There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.'

Rhaevyn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2465
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 38
Location : Mike Bidyk

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Planes on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:11 pm

This sounds pretty solid. Just wondering, though, has NOVA come up with any 6th ed missions yet?

_________________
I use every part of the Space Buffalo.

Planes
Lord of Titan

Posts : 3145
Join date : 2011-11-27
Location : Mai'laun

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Roland on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:33 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:Thats actually fairly neat and tidy Beau. I wouldn't mind using that at all.

Its tight, but I'm trying to work other possible secondaries in (High Ground, Quarters, etc.) and the actual missions feels a bit bare.

I think Purge the Alien needs an adjustment of some sort. High KP vs Low KP armies are still broken. (MSU marines vs Draigowing for instance)

_________________
Habes obdura si ista sis nugax - family proverb

Roland
Lord of Titan

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : Saskatoon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Aegwymourn on Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:25 pm

Roland wrote:
Rhaevyn wrote:Thats actually fairly neat and tidy Beau. I wouldn't mind using that at all.

Its tight, but I'm trying to work other possible secondaries in (High Ground, Quarters, etc.) and the actual missions feels a bit bare.

I think Purge the Alien needs an adjustment of some sort. High KP vs Low KP armies are still broken. (MSU marines vs Draigowing for instance)

You could always go back to the old points system?

Aegwymourn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2531
Join date : 2012-07-01
Location : Rosetown

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:04 pm

Roland wrote:Here's a few thoughts.

Deployment: Same
Missions: Only Crusade and Purge the Alien stay.
The Emporors Will and Relic are combined into "Capture the Flag". Bases are 3VP and the Relic is 5VP.
Secondary Objectives: roll 3d6, rerolling any duplicates
1) First Blood
2) Slay the Warlord
3) Linebreaker
4) Send in the Vets!: Elites (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.
5) Cavalry: Fast Attack Choices (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.
6) The Big Guns: Heavy Support Choices (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.

I'm tending to go with the line of thinking that 1/2 the objectives you place (rounding up) must be outside your deployment zone.

I'm aware this is rough. That's why I'm posting:) Any comments/criticism/loopholes I'm not seeing?

This. Although I say make the Relic 4pts. 4+Extras = 4-7, 3+Extras = 3-6. Otherwise, the relic is worth too much and it becomes a game of Relic anyway.
(5-8 vs 3-6, you'd have to win secondary and all the extras to win the game without the relic)

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Roland on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:06 pm

Mark, there would be 3 pt obj in that, so you could take both of those and would only need to tie on secondary obj (tie breaker and the like) to win. That said it'd be basically the same with 4VP. Either way if you take the Relic and one other objective, you're going to win (as you likely should). If the relic is the same 3 VP, you run the possibility of someone taking 2 obj and still only getting a tie. (though not likely)


_________________
Habes obdura si ista sis nugax - family proverb

Roland
Lord of Titan

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : Saskatoon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Roland on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:12 pm

Aegwymourn wrote:
Roland wrote:
Rhaevyn wrote:Thats actually fairly neat and tidy Beau. I wouldn't mind using that at all.

Its tight, but I'm trying to work other possible secondaries in (High Ground, Quarters, etc.) and the actual missions feels a bit bare.

I think Purge the Alien needs an adjustment of some sort. High KP vs Low KP armies are still broken. (MSU marines vs Draigowing for instance)

You could always go back to the old points system?

I like the old point system, it just always seems like it takes too long to count up. I believe You could scale everyones KP to say 15 pretty easily.

Player one kills 7 out of a possible 10 KP. They get 10.5VP

Player two kills 13/20 KP. They get 9.75 KP

Its more fair, but still time consuming. What would people rather do?


_________________
Habes obdura si ista sis nugax - family proverb

Roland
Lord of Titan

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : Saskatoon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Aegwymourn on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:17 pm

That was always the argument I heard as well. But really does adding take that long? I dunno always seemed fishy to me as an excuse. Especially if people bring a legible army list it shouldn't be that hard.

Aegwymourn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2531
Join date : 2012-07-01
Location : Rosetown

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Roland on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:32 pm

I think it was more "if the vehicle is damage/immobilized it counts half.... If the squad is below 1/2 str they count half..... etc." The OCD part of me says if the model is on the table it counts. No if ands or buts. That said the newer codexes make even that fun.....

Tactical squad-90pt
each additional marine-+16....

I know how *I'd* split that up, but I someone is gonna split hairs over it.

_________________
Habes obdura si ista sis nugax - family proverb

Roland
Lord of Titan

Posts : 3544
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : Saskatoon

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:32 pm

With a 1 in 3 chance of playing a killpoint mission and the offsetting extra victory points (1st blood, etc...), I think KP's are probably fine.

Sorry about my other math Beau, I was confused between 3VP's for winning the objective war, not 3VP's per objective. It makes more sense the way you have it.

So... that said... I like it as is! :-) I like how you wrapped up big guns and scouring as secondary objectives. I would add that "Flyers never score", just for clarity and to prevent beardyness (Objective placed on third floor of a ruin and flyer zooms in from reserves on turn five to "claim" it, seems lame)

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:52 pm

"zooming and swooping flyers never score"

I cant see why a hovering or gliding flyers couldn't claim.

_________________
There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.'

Rhaevyn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2465
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 38
Location : Mike Bidyk

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:54 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:"zooming and swooping flyers never score"

I cant see why a hovering or gliding flyers couldn't claim.

Fair enough.

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Aegwymourn on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:04 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:"zooming and swooping flyers never score"

I cant see why a hovering or gliding flyers couldn't claim.

I dunno spending the whole game zooming/swooping and last turn changing to hover to grab an objective might rub me the wrong way. Especially if they are going second. Although as more fliers are made and there are more ways to deal with them it will probably end up fine.

Aegwymourn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2531
Join date : 2012-07-01
Location : Rosetown

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  System Commander on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:56 pm

Sorry i havent chimed in yet. Been a busy day here.

Ill offer some ideas tonight as well. I like where its going but have.some input to share.

I like.kill points as they are.. A small balance to keep some massive msu lists at bay. Im also leaning towards the idea of a base mission which might be 3-5.objectives and then the random secondaries. Two charts might be the way to.go.for.secndaries though.. Id.only like to see one roll that could possibly turn fa, hs or elies into possible vp or scoring units. Getting all three for one person.. Which im sure will happen might be a bit rough.

Ill pop on later with some more brainstorming, but its shaping up

System Commander
System Commander

Posts : 4693
Join date : 2008-02-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:05 pm

Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord are "always on" (and always achievable by both armies) roll a D4 for the other one?

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Scenario changes - next league

Post  Sponsored content Today at 6:35 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum