Eldar Falcon Grav Tank Question #1

Timbo Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:55 am

I don't really keep up with the current metagame or what rocks in tournaments (other than Orks). Can anyone tell me, are Eldar Falcons with holo-fields considered overpowered? They seem pretty good in theory. An all-mechanized Eldar list is tempting, but I wouldn't want to be called cheesy or anything.

Veyure Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:49 am

it is powerful but you still should not skip over it. only falcons and prisms can take it so only your heavy tanks become that tough... It usually doesn't help me as my opponents usually roll box cars. I wouldn't say 'over'powered though.

The tanks are really important to objective missions. Because you can give them star engines, they can move across the entire table and contest, have a 4+ cover and if you give them vectored and holofields then it's pretty much going to contest no matter what.

3 tanks like thatwould be 'cheasy' imo

System Commander Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:47 am

They were more powerful in the last edition I would argue. Sure vehicles got overall upgrades in this edition, but you know can;t move 24" and have to move so many inches for an obscuring, and it's not an auto glance anymore, just obscurement. So, I do think they are strong, but not as bad as 4th. I could never kill them in 4th, it drove me bonkers. Same with Hammerheads.

smackman Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:16 am

meh greg will call anything cheesy so might as well play a cheese list haha

Veyure Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:08 am

Im sorry Tom, but 3 hammerheads and 2 commanders with bodyguard and max shield drones is pretty close to cheese to a lot of people im sure.

smackman Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:52 pm

wussy!

Lord_Commander_Stash Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:32 am

System Commander wrote:They were more powerful in the last edition I would argue. Sure vehicles got overall upgrades in this edition, but you know can;t move 24" and have to move so many inches for an obscuring, and it's not an auto glance anymore, just obscurement. So, I do think they are strong, but not as bad as 4th. I could never kill them in 4th, it drove me bonkers. Same with Hammerheads.

Actually fast skimmers still can move 24" fast non skimmer can only go 18"

When you could only glance falcons the odds of killing them were 1/9 (1/6 in 3rd ed)

The odds of killing a falcon with holofields which went flat out (4+) for a penetrating hit is now 1/8 instead of 1/9
" "...with a glancing hit is now 1/36 instead of 1/9

The odds of killing a falcon with holofields behind cover (4+) with a penetrating hit is now 1/18 instead of 1/9 (imobilized doesn't kill it)
" "...with a glancing hit is now 0 instead of 1/9 .........

I think Falcons got more rediculous if you ask me.....

Veyure Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:56 am

way to outshine the system commander stash.

System Commander Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:34 am

You can throw as many numbers around as needed, but what it comes down to is that ALL shots agianst them in 4th were downgraded to glances if it moved more then 6" was it? I may be wrong, I never had a fast skimmer, don't want to get in trouble again.

So, all penetrating hits were downgraded to glancing, and then spirits stones made life tough. At least now when you get a penetrating hit on them, you still have a 50% to leave it at a penetrating hit. I'd take 50% penetrating hits over auto glances anyway.

I could never kill the darn things in 4th, but I've had no problem so far in 5th.

Which one is holo fields.. roll again on the penetrating/glance chart? Then it's the spirit stones that can ignore stunned/shaken right?

Veyure Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:12 pm

holofields is roll 2d6 on armour damage table and pick the lowest. spirit stones are like extra armour.

Lord_Commander_Stash Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:08 pm

System Commander wrote:You can throw as many numbers around as needed, but what it comes down to is that ALL shots agianst them in 4th were downgraded to glances if it moved more then 6" was it? I may be wrong, I never had a fast skimmer, don't want to get in trouble again.

So, all penetrating hits were downgraded to glancing, and then spirits stones made life tough. At least now when you get a penetrating hit on them, you still have a 50% to leave it at a penetrating hit. I'd take 50% penetrating hits over auto glances anyway.

I could never kill the darn things in 4th, but I've had no problem so far in 5th.

Which one is holo fields.. roll again on the penetrating/glance chart? Then it's the spirit stones that can ignore stunned/shaken right?

With the new damage table and the 50/50 save the stats are actually harder than simply glancing them like before

Lord_Commander_Stash Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:10 pm

Lord_Commander_Stash wrote:
System Commander wrote:You can throw as many numbers around as needed, but what it comes down to is that ALL shots agianst them in 4th were downgraded to glances if it moved more then 6" was it? I may be wrong, I never had a fast skimmer, don't want to get in trouble again.

So, all penetrating hits were downgraded to glancing, and then spirits stones made life tough. At least now when you get a penetrating hit on them, you still have a 50% to leave it at a penetrating hit. I'd take 50% penetrating hits over auto glances anyway.

I could never kill the darn things in 4th, but I've had no problem so far in 5th.

Which one is holo fields.. roll again on the penetrating/glance chart? Then it's the spirit stones that can ignore stunned/shaken right?

With the new damage table and the 50/50 save the stats are actually harder over all than simply glancing them like before

smackman Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:17 pm

if you moved skimmers fast enough to get the cover save then immobilized kills them actually because they crash...

Lord_Commander_Stash Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:09 pm

smackman wrote:if you moved skimmers fast enough to get the cover save then immobilized kills them actually because they crash...

They can take cover saves from hiding behind terrain. I havent found anything in this edition that disallows them one

Nordius Rex Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:49 pm

I wrote out a a long, carefully worded reply as to why I dont think falcons are cheesy and how they are WAY less powerful than they were in 4th and then when I hit the "Preview" button I got taken to the login screen and now it's all gone. So I am going to type this faster and potentially more =I=censor=I=-like.

I am going to assume stash's numbers are correct and that the cove save in 5th is statistically slightly better than the "downgrades pen's to glances " from 4th.

However 2 rule changes have really shafted the falcons from 4th to 5th.

1) Defensive weapons going from 6 down to 4. Almost all of the good weapons that you HAVE to buy for a falcon are str 6 and you used to be able to upgrade the catapult to a cannon for cheep. Now you are stuck paying for a gun you will never fire if you are moving at all. It also may not be worth upgrading the catapult for the same reason.

2) Movement and getting the defensive bonus. In 5th you can move 12', find cover behind a building or vehicle (but against enemies from certain facings only) and fire your main and defensive weapons (Still less than you could fire in 4th). But in 4th you could move 12' every turn, fire all your weapons and still claim cover against enemies from all sides. Sure you can still move 12'+ and claim the new cover 4+ in 5th ed., but at the cost of ALL of your shooting.

Were Falcons cheesy in 4th, maybe. In 5th, no.

Keep in mind this is only my opinion, and I am kinda a =I=censor=I=.

Edit * So it censors =I=censor=I= eh? Well if I knew that I woulda said =I=censor=I= or =I=censor=I=-toque.

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Eldar Falcon Grav Tank Question #1

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DAMMIT!!!!

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