chaos SM/black legion theory listing

Trying a few ideas.

What's good?
HQ
Khorne Lord on Jugger
Nurgle Lord on bike
Maxed out Tzeentchy sorcerer
DPs ,(which god)

E
Pretty much nothing
Termicide
Invisible mutilators

T
Cult troops (appro Lord requirement)
Cultist

FA
Heldrakes
Khorne bikers with Lord
Marked spawn with fast Lord

HS
Pretty much anything?
Oblits (tzeentch and nurgle, vets)
Preds/vindi/havocs/forge or mauler fiends
Defilers/LR

FW units would have to fit in somewhere

What I'm thinking is making "blocks" I can plug and play. One for each of the possible marks, Undivided, Khorne, etc. Likely scalable so each block is between lets say 500 and 750 pts. 1 unit per force org. Undivided gets 2 troops and doesnt have an HQ unless I'm only running a blaock of two. So say I want a Khorne/Tzeentch force. 500 pts of undivided troops, 625 pts each of Khorne and Tzeentch. Poof. 1750 pt list in a single CAD, thats hopefully at least decently fluffy.

I got the idea from looking at some example of what works in the dex. for instance, a popular HQ choice is a Lord on Bike, Fist/Claw with a sigil. 170 pts. But he obvs needs a bodyguard unit to get him into combat. The prefered method seems to be a unit of say 5 spawn (with nurgle mark: 180 pts)

From there- if you've unlocked them as troops you might as well take em. A (fluff sized) unit of Plague marine in a rhino: 255 pts

so you have a block of 605 pts for nurgle right there. add a unit of Oblits and youre up to 763 (about max for the block size I was looking for). And you have an HQ, T, FA and HS.

If you keep to fluffy combos (No Khorne/Slannesh, no nurgle/Tzeentch) you can even offset the block size or use them for certain combinations.
(Ex. I use 763 as my block size for Nurgle, so I build my Tzeentch list the same size. I make sure to put a Heldrake in it and another in either the Khorne or slannesh list so when they add up, I have one list with double dragon, 2 with a single drake, and one that has no drake, but likely has 2 fast moving hard hitting lords)

Off the top of my head
Khorne:-~790
Lord on Jugger- 180?
Khorne Bikers- 170?
Beserkers-210?
Land raider 230

Tzeentch-812?
fully loaded Sorceror 200?
1K Son/Rhino-280?
Heldrake-170
Oblits- 162

Slannesh
HQ-I dunno- cheap lord?
Noise Marines in a rhino
Dread with T/L AutoC, PF, and flamer (modeled as a blastmaster and doomsiren)
Pred with AutoC and HB (modeled as a Blastmaster and sonic blasters)

Heldrakes are kinda 'ehhh' right now. You get one good flame, one "meh" flame, then have to fly off the board. If you've got the models, I think the big fat unit of Khorne Spawn with a Juggy Lord is really good.

The new beats on your daemon prince is nurgle mark. because he can jink while jumping accross the table for a 2+ cover save. kinda like Belekor but with an armour save.

Khorne lord on a jugger is good in black legion because you can give him eternal warrior. lose out on the Axe of burning rage. but spineshiver gives I6... Hmm, i may have to play this guy.

No bad choices in CSM fast attack, even raptors are good now that they score. I'm worried about marking bikers though, thier strengths seem to be being cheap and double specials. You're probably only going to want to charge things you could win against without rage, so i'm not a big fan of Khorne Bikes.

I think you leave out undivided to easily. I like an undivided sorcerer a lot because you can join him to a marked lord or squad, and you don't have to take the Chaos psychic powers.

TZ needs something, i'm not sold on them yet. just too many points for everything. TZ oblits are better than bog standard, but nurgle is still better.

HS - man i love me some vindicators these days. fairly cheap, and they draw so much fire on turn one that the rest of your army might as well not exist. i'm tempted to run three. haha.

Lore Weaver wrote:Heldrakes are kinda 'ehhh' right now.  You get one good flame, one "meh" flame, then have to fly off the board.  If you've got the models, I think the big fat unit of Khorne Spawn with a  Juggy Lord is really good.

nah, you get one good flame, one Hover-Flame.. and then you have a dead helldrake, haha.

Hover-Flame isn't horrible, if you've got other targets on the board....

Tempted to whip out the brutes again....

I like mauler fiends paired with forge fiends. If you could run 2 of each that'd put the fear in someone. Always thought maulers should be elites a la mutilators/oblits.

A FW decimator could be an elite stand in for a forge fiend.

I like vindis too. Just figuring where to put em.

I rather like most of the relics. Skull on a beatstick. Last memory on a sorc or DP. The SS blade....

The hand seems good and bad. Str 8, ap1, flesh bane, armorbane ID.... But one attack? Obverse useless for a DP.

So, I'm trying to do this without ye olde "Codex: Cultist, Oblits, and Heldrakes" ie Chaos Space Marines with no Chaos Space Marines.

1750 Pts - Supplement: Black Legion Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1744

HQ: Daemon Prince (1#, 410 pts)
1 Daemon Prince, 310 pts = (base cost 145 + Power Armour 20 + Wings 40 + Increase Mastery Level x3 75 + Daemon of Nurgle 15 + Spell Familiar 15)
1 Last Memory of the Yuranthos, 30 pts
1 The Skull of Ker'ngar, 40 pts
1 The Spineshiver Blade, 30 pts

HQ: Sorcerer (1#, 140 pts)
1 Sorcerer, 140 pts = (base cost 60 + Increase Mastery Level x2 50 + Sigil of Corruption 25 + Veterans of the Long War 5)

Troops: Chaos Space Marines (11#, 249 pts)
9 Chaos Space Marines, 155 pts = 9 * 14 (base cost 13 + Veterans of the Long War 1) + Close Combat Weapon x7 14 + Flamer 5 + Meltagun 10
1 Aspiring Champion, 49 pts = (base cost 23 + Power Fist x1 25 + Veterans of the Long War 1)
1 Chaos Rhino, 45 pts = (base cost 35 + Combi-melta 10)

Troops: Chaos Space Marines (11#, 249 pts)
9 Chaos Space Marines, 155 pts = 9 * 14 (base cost 13 + Veterans of the Long War 1) + Close Combat Weapon x7 14 + Flamer 5 + Meltagun 10
1 Aspiring Champion, 49 pts = (base cost 23 + Power Fist x1 25 + Veterans of the Long War 1)
1 Chaos Rhino, 45 pts = (base cost 35 + Combi-melta 10)

Troops: Chosen (6#, 205 pts)
4 Chosen, 140 pts = 4 * 20 (base cost 18 + Veterans of the Long War 2) + Plasma gun x4 60
1 Chosen Champion, 20 pts = (base cost 18 + Veterans of the Long War 2)
1 Chaos Rhino, 45 pts = (base cost 35 + Combi-melta 10)

Troops: Chaos Cultists (19#, 91 pts)
18 Chaos Cultists, 77 pts = 18 * 4 (base cost 4) + Flamer x1 5
1 Cultist Champion, 14 pts

Fast Attack: Heldrake (1#, 170 pts)
1 Heldrake, 170 pts

Heavy Support: Chaos Predator (1#, 115 pts)
1 Chaos Predator, 115 pts = (base cost 75 + Lascannon (each side) 40)

Heavy Support: Chaos Predator (1#, 115 pts)
1 Chaos Predator, 115 pts = (base cost 75 + Lascannon (each side) 40)

The Relics could be switched around, and a Combimelta or 2 could be traded for a havoc launcher.

Can't fault it too much, except for those powerfists on your aspiring champs.

I'de also probably pair up your specials, 2 flamers, 2 meltas. spending an entire shooting round on a single effective shot seems to be a waste.

Easy changes. And 50 points to play with. I also realized I could take Belo koor as my DP. I think the nurgle one fits my playstyle better. The chosen/cultists could be swapped for 2 MSU rhino squads with havoc launchers if I wanted some cheap pies to toss around.

all tooled up, i like the nurgle dp better. spineshiver and spell familiar make this guy a beast. your only real fear is ignores cover shooting. 410 points !

With those 50 points, probably want a spell familiar on your sorcerer too. just in case.