ravenwing 1500-1750

so im going through my models, updating them with nicer looking bits, etc. and i've decided to set my goal to update my bikers into the following list.

for 1500pt games, model wise, it'll consist of:

Total Roster Cost: 1479

HQ (5#, 495 pts)
Sammael on Corvex

Librarian
+ Mastery Level 2, Auspex, Space Marine Bike

Ravenwing Command Squad
+ Apothecary, Champion, Ravenwing Company Banner, grenade launcher

Troop (22#, 841 pts)
Ravenwing Attack Squadron (5)
+ Plasmagun x2
+ Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta

Ravenwing Attack Squadron (6)
+ Meltagun x2
+ Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
+ Land Speeder Typhoon

Ravenwing Attack Squadron (6)
+ Meltagun x2
+ Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
+ Land Speeder Typhoon

Fast (3#, 143 pts)
Ravenwing Black Knights (3)
+ Grenade Launcher
+ Melta Bombs & Power Maul

as you see, that give me 21pts to play with wargear. nothing specifically set. the sergeant will get chainswords and that's it; reason being they're only meat shields, so im not wasting points on them. chainswords are just to help make them stand out in case i screw up and let them get assaulted.

1750 looks like this:

Total Roster Cost: 1749

HQ (5#, 495 pts)
Sammael on Corvex

Librarian
+ Mastery Level 2, Auspex, Space Marine Bike

Ravenwing Command Squad
+ Apothecary, Champion, Ravenwing Company Banner, Grenade Launcher

Troop (24#, 943 pts)
Ravenwing Attack Squadron (6)
+ Plasmagun x2
+ Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
+ Land Speeder Typhoon

Ravenwing Attack Squadron (6)
+ Meltagun x2
+ Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
+ Land Speeder Typhoon

Ravenwing Attack Squadron (6)
+ Meltagun x2
+ Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
+ Land Speeder Typhoon

Fast (7#, 311 pts)
Ravenwing Black Knights (7)
+ 2 Grenade Launcher
+ Melta Bombs & Power Maul

if i was to goto 2000pts, i'd probably do what i did vs dan, where i'd drop the plasma squad back to the 1500pt version, and then take 2 nephelim jetfighters. or, take a second black knight squad of 5, and make the first one only 6 dudes, and take another command squad with just a devastation banner and a grenade launcher for optional wargear. that would also hit 2000pts even. with that many rad shell shots in the army, i can reduce the toughness of an opponent by as much as -5 if they dont scatter. so if anything really big and mean comes on the board without eternal warrior, it can be insta-gibbed by the 3rd or 4th rad shell making a successful wound (they're str 3 shells and rad shells affect your instant-death threshold for the game turn.)

Do they specifically state that they stack for Rad Grendes. There is precedence in the BRB that anything that provides a stat reducing effect does not stack unless stating otherwise. I think it came up on a BoLS thread.

Hmm, not 100% on that. It just says any models under the template are reduced by -1 toughness until the end of the turn and that it affects ID threshold

dusktiger wrote:Hmm, not 100% on that. It just says any models under the template are reduced by -1 toughness until the end of the turn and that it affects ID threshold

Its any models with one or more Rad charges has minus 1 toughness. Getting hit multiple times or from multiple directions will not lower the T any more than 1. Though, you might be able to cast that Psy power to reduce the toughness and have it stack with rad grenades.

Actually, I think it says any unit with models hit by the template. It was pretty clear to me that it doesn't stack, and if one dude is hit, the whole unit's affected.

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The 1500 point list, any reason the launcher's not included there too?

21 pts... ? Can you massage things a bit and grab a Darkshroud? mmm 2+ to 4+ cover saves... (5+ jink +1 Skilled Rider, +1 Turboboost, +1 Stealth) There aren't really any obvious wargear grabs. You've got a flier problem, I could see hoping for a six???

With the number of tl guns, the chance of a 6 popping up is fairly good. And if I kill off your troops and ignore your flyer, I still win most scenarios.

"Every model in a unit hit by one or more rad shells suffers -1 penalty to their toughness until the end of the turn."

Ok, I can see it not stacking from the one or more bit.

I'm not sure on the every model bit though, that looks like another death ray cockup where they meant if 5 out of 10 models are touched by the shell, the 5 under the template have their toughness reduced by 1.

Mike reread your quote. "Every model in a unit hit..." You're overcomplicating it dude:)

Roland wrote:Mike reread your quote. "Every model in a unit hit..." You're overcomplicating it dude:)

To be fair, it's argued quite regularly on the internets.

Edit: Are you relying on the Krak missiles from the Typhoons? I think you'd be okay against AV10/11 flyers, but single hits against Hell Turkey's or Vendetta's isn't going to do the job, you still need a 6 to destroy it (4 to takeoff a baleflamer)

To be fair, what isn't? I'd play it either way, but tracking individual models would be a pain.

I could probably fit in a game next weekend Mike, 1750?

Just occurred to me 1-2 commas would completely change how that rule gets applied. I'm sure they issue a rules compendium for $40 in a year and a half to clear that up.

Prob forget one of the commas and have to faq it.

It's pretty well written right now, actually.

1) Was the unit hit?
2) If 1) is yes, then every model in the unit is -1 T.

..Hire a technical writer GW. And a proofreader.

Every model... Hit takes -1t. That's Mike's reading, but why add "in a unit".

Although it does seem cheap to tap one guy and boom, everyone is affected

Roland wrote:..Hire a technical writer GW. And a proofreader.

Every model... Hit takes -1t. That's Mike's reading, but why add "in a unit".

Although it does seem cheap to tap one guy and boom, everyone is affected

It's the illusion of cheap, 42 points per bike is 210% more expensive than a Chaos bike.

Lore Weaver wrote:I could probably fit in a game next weekend Mike, 1750?

Sat would work for me. I don't have the models for the 1750 list yet though, but I could play test it with some proxies for the few I'm missing

dusktiger wrote:

Lore Weaver wrote:I could probably fit in a game next weekend Mike, 1750?

Sat would work for me. I don't have the models for the 1750 list yet though, but I could play test it with some proxies for the few I'm missing

I'm fine with 1750 or 1500. I'd like to playtest some jiggering with my Chaos list. Up to you.

Lore Weaver wrote:

Roland wrote:..Hire a technical writer GW. And a proofreader.

Every model... Hit takes -1t. That's Mike's reading, but why add "in a unit".

Although it does seem cheap to tap one guy and boom, everyone is affected

It's the illusion of cheap, 42 points per bike is 210% more expensive than a Chaos bike.

I meant beardy cheap, as in you barely scrap the base of one model, and the entire unit is effected.