Phil Kelly can lick my balls.

I truly thing someone will be fired over this book. It will be the worst received codex of all time, and the new rules for the new models arent good so they wont sell that many.
Many Chaos players will probably quit the game. Im not saying any in this community will, but in the broad player base there will be. Making a product that alienates players in unacceptable, onto of the two other failures I just mentioned.

Yes I really think this is some job loosing material

Rhaevyn wrote:I'm going to field Fabio and Typhus. and swarm all 'yall with Zombies and Roid monkies.

No you arent I have dibs on that army already I have a nurgle army and a fabius themed army pretty much ready to go. Fabius themed army doesnt do anything anymore so he will be getting worked into the nurgle


...not to mention the partially completed plague zombies I have left over still from codex eye of terror.


Just hope I dont have to fight against any flyers....

pfft flyers. my 175 point unit of 5 havocs with missile launchers laughs at your vendetta.........

Rhaevyn wrote:pfft flyers. my 175 point unit of 5 havocs with missile launchers laughs at your vendetta.........

but not at the demo charge that just got shat out of it?

Things are pretty much exactly what I expected them to be. See the "I told you so" at the top of the page. You win a lot of games in 6th edition with your Eldar codex, do you? If that's the case and you enjoy playing them then great. There are Eldar players out there who would say the Eldar book is pretty weak (possibly the worst of all codexes) in 6th edition, and was also weak in 5th edition. They have been waiting for a new codex for a long, long time. All the while they have witnessed the additions of widespread psychic defence, the hull point system, the inability to assault from transports even if they have not moved, the inability to count as scoring while in a transport, etc. All of these changes have weakened the already tepid Eldar book. In my opinion the 4th edition Eldar book was reasonably balanced at the time of its release. Like all Phil Kelly books everything was costed a bit high (see 8 point Guardians) but this was likely a response to Eldar being the dominant army in 3rd edition. The book has not aged well in my opinion. And it's not like the Chaos Marine book was tearing it up in 5th edition. It was a mid to low tier codex. Clearly inferior to IG, Dark Eldar, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and Necrons to name a few. That's why the "new" book is so puzzling to me. I feel some ranting is waranted and if it turns you off feel free to not read my posts. I am a long time Chaos and Eldar player but I may have to reconsider this in the future. Time to put Phil Kelly out to pasture!

Timbo wrote:

judchic wrote:They got an extra attack, marks got cheaper for them and attaching any fearless character makes cultists fearless.

Um, they only have one attack on their profile. Are you referring to their pistol/close combat weapon? Would you honestly invest in any of the marks for a cultist unit? What fearless character would best be attached to a cultist unit?

Kinda laughing at Kharn running across table with 30 wound-I mean cultists.

I do love the plague zombies.... Full squads of those are goimg to be hard to dislodge off an objective if theyre in terrain.

Regular cultists do look really bad. Id be almost a bit partial to them if they could taken an icon. I wouldnt want to attach any characters to them though.

Besides plague zombies.. I think the only other useful mark is khorne. But... 30 guys with 3 flamers and mok is 225. Hmm. Not bad for rage and counterattack but.. Armour 6 and youdreally need to get them fearless. Kharne isnt a bad option buy having to run those guys across the table would suck.

I dont know.. But i dont see a good option for cultists.. Except with typhus.

I am coming around on the heldrake though.. Move 36", use the baleflamer to roast some shootie units. But.. With bikes and raptors being cheaper.. That fast slot has gotten busy. I think a list with two drakes would be great.. One flamer one cannon?

I have to start making some lists. I guess theoretically we could start playing some games with chaos.

I will admit the baleflamer seems like the way to go on that guy. A single BS3 hades cannon is not scaring anything.

i dunno, if you take a flyer that cant dog-fight, how long will you have your flyer?
right now with equal armies, including flyers, i'de fight you to go second. because the person who gets to shoot at the enemy flyer first is going to control the skies for the rest of the game.

dragon comes on the board. vector strikes... a rhino? then flames some dudes... if you can draw a line over something, stop, and still line up your flame template.

Drake needs. 1) vector dancer. 2) a second gun. or missiles, or some goddamn thing to justify 170 f*cking points.
Vector dancer maybe? Its a bloody dragon. its got to be more agile than a dakkajet.

Don't forget the flamer template has torrent, so it has a pretty huge range. No lousy dragon can outfly an Ork speed freak! Get serious dude!

If history repeats itself and mediocre codexes get met with new edition mediocre codexes, that does not motivate me to wait for a new Tyranid codex. Probably over a year away anyways.

Yeah Scott, they seem to really overvalue monstrous creatures for some reason. And that's after nerfing them a bit with the 6th rules (can use grenades against them now). I wouldn't hold much hope for a new 'Nid book being an improvement.

I can't even think of what my book needs other than maybe pricing some stuff down. I have a lot of options, but the monsters other than Tervigon and maybe Trygon are all overpriced.

2 rule changes hurt 'nids a lot.

1. Fleet getting stuffed.
2. No outflank and assault.

i'm going to keep running defiler. its still a terror and the 5+ invul will likely help a bit. changes to ordinance makes me like it more as a firing platform though.

Guys help me out here I do not have the codex yet. Tim seems to be pretty confident in his opinion on Phil Kelly and it sounds pretty terrible, yet bols has all hail to Phil Kelly in the good way. If the codex is as under powered as you guys are saying it would be a great thing if they were operating under a privateer press codex bombardment release. However with codex's like necrons, wolves, and angels it will be a decade before everything comes in line again and that's a lot of time. Best of luck with the new codex everyone.

The BoLS article is written by a fanboi. wait until abuse puppy or goatboy get thier hands on it and see the actual Costs of those units mr Larry Vella is praising. There are only 2 things inherently wrong with the codex... 1) everything is expensive (even the BOLS article points to an increased cost to everything.. somehow justifying it with a return to fluff and flavour... we are paying points for fluff now?). Secondly, HQ and heavy support are way.. way.....WAY..... too big and bloated, with no mechanic to swap FOC slots other than lords with cult units.

- Good Costings. Kelly makes an attempt to make the CSM units more flavorful with more special rules to reflect their background, while slightly increased in cost across the board. I'm happy to see a movement away from the generic "less is more" feel of the last codex.

WTF?

Because daemon princes want to pay more points to have Hatred->other daemons.

What's the cost of a forgefiend with maxed out S8 shooty? 175? Is it 12 S8 shots?

PS: Love the thread title Tim.

A base forgefiend has two hades .. Its 175.

You can exchange the hades for an ectoplasm cannon.. And add another ectoplasm for 25. You cant add another hades cannin.

Its odd wording though. From the entry.. You could take the two hades and add an ectoplasm for 25.

In my opinion the 3.5 chaos dex was the best to date, and what I am reading from you guys I will honestly say I am getting real worried about this new edition, I will still buy it and try it out. Not that I see myself having much success, since I don't play power hungry kick your ass now list, of which anyone I have played will tell you and if the new dex is really as bad as you all say then we will be seeing a marked increase in appearances of the. Foot slogging guard hord

So 175 pts for 8 S8 shots at BS3 eh... Meh.

Hell brutes are better the, aren't they? 25% cover isn't hard to achieve.

They dont have any options.. Same old ones.

110 points for a helbrute with a twin linked autocannon.. No buther or hades cannon

I think the big thing about the forgefiend is the daemonforge though.. Once per game you can reroll failed to wound or oen rolls. I really like that rule.

ya, once per game you ruin whatever you shoot. nice that all the engines have that.

judchic wrote:ya, once per game you ruin whatever you shoot. nice that all the engines have that.

First turn kill something and snag first blood.

Rhaevyn wrote:The BoLS article is written by a fanboi. wait until abuse puppy or goatboy get thier hands on it and see the actual Costs of those units mr Larry Vella is praising. There are only 2 things inherently wrong with the codex... 1) everything is expensive (even the BOLS article points to an increased cost to everything.. somehow justifying it with a return to fluff and flavour... we are paying points for fluff now?). Secondly, HQ and heavy support are way.. way.....WAY..... too big and bloated, with no mechanic to swap FOC slots other than lords with cult units.

- Good Costings. Kelly makes an attempt to make the CSM units more flavorful with more special rules to reflect their background, while slightly increased in cost across the board. I'm happy to see a movement away from the generic "less is more" feel of the last codex.

WTF?

Because daemon princes want to pay more points to have Hatred->other daemons.

Please note, Larry Vela is BigRed, he owns the store they are based in and uses the site as advertising. Of course he's gonna spooge all over it