Promoting the warriors

I have been told that Necron Warriors can be up-converted to Immortals. I was wondering if there were any special bits needed for doing this, or any recommendations as to how to do so? I figure Gauss Blasters could be produced by stealing a barrel from a Gauss Flayer and attaching it to the bottom of the first, but I have the impression that making Tesla Carbines wouldn't be as easy.

buy an immortals box set. the new ones come with enough bits that all you're going to do is take the blaster or the carbine, whichever you dont use from the kit, and put that on a warrior. they're close enough you wont notice at first glance. i bought a box of them, and one of the lychguard, and im just mixing the bitz i had left over from both boxes with warrior bitz, and now i have 5 immortals with carbines, 5 with blasters, 5 deathmarks, and 5 lychguard. and the spare bitz you dont use from the lychguard kit can be used to kitbash crypteks or lords, what whatever you like. the torso bits all match up pretty closely; the deathmarks i just centered a warriors front torso with the deathmark rear one, and filled the gaps with plasticard. after i sanded it smooth and painted it, you wouldn't know any better unless you've seen the actual deathmark models assembled properly.

the immortals kit will make the blaster variant, the carbine variant, and deathmarks. so if you buy some warrior bodies, you can kitbash pretty easily to get more models from fewer box sets. which is great, considering the price theyre selling that box of "5" models
here's a deathmark i converted:


and here's a warrior given the immortal's Gauss Blaster:



here's a closeup of the wrist joint; you'll have to trim the wrist a little; mainly to get the angle right so it sits flush. not hard to do though:

So, two boxes of Immortals, assuming ample supply of warriors, should yield 2 full squads of Immortals (one of each weapon type) and a 10 man squad of Deathmarks. I am wondering, though, given certain budget restrictions, how hard would it be to green stuff the desired bits once I had an Immortals box?

unless youre really good at sculpting parts with green stuff, its easier to just buy 2 boxes of immortals, and then a box or two of warriors. green stuff is actually too soft and pliable to sculpt the parts to make everything match the GW pictures. its meant for gap filling and soft flowy things like capes and fabrics. if you want to try sculpting, you're gonna have to buy brown stuff. it dries foster, so you dont get an hour or two to sculpt like with green stuff, but it dries into a firmer result, keeping shapes better. sculpters will tell you use brown stuff for harder things, like armor, the core of your body, etc. use grey stuff to mold thinner details, like swords, and thinner plates of armour, like gorgets and wrist bands, and then use green stuff for softer things like fabrics and insignias. but brown and grey stuff isnt as easy to come buy locally; ive yet to find any brown stuff anywhere but online. and its not cheap to buy and just putz around with til you get the hand of sculpting. the cheapest easiest way would be to kitbash and use small amounts of green stuff and/or plasticard to gap fill where necessary. if you decide to go that route and your not sure how to do it or a part of it is giving you grief, you can try to organize a time when both of us are free and i can help you do the conversions to show you how its done, to help you get started if you like.

probably cost you more in time and greenstuff

Well, I should have my first batch of 'Crons tomorrow after work, so I could probably putz around with them at the Den on Friday. I already have some paints and glue lined up for it. Chaos Black, Regal Blue, Asurmen Blue wash, and Phoenix Red (from the Reaper Line). I managed to snag some brushes cheap from Zellers. They should do well for everything but the line work.

This quick shoop should more or less show the general effect I'm going for.

necron abyss for that deep blue, regal blue or a touch lighter for the brighter blue. that'll give you the closest effect to that scheme.

The funny thing is that all the colors used in there, aside from the black lines, are color sampled from the Game's Workshop paint catalogue. The dark color was Chaos Black, the mid-tone was Regal Blue, and the red was Blood Red. For the actual painting I was instead going to use Reaper's Phoenix Red, but give it a wash with Asurmen Blue first.





It should be noted, though that some (if not most) of the minis I am getting have some degree of paint on them already. The Destroyers I'm trading for with Jay have a base coat of red on them already, so I'm going to work with that a bit to see if I can give my line work a slight glow effect. The Warriors I'm getting from him have a metallic base coat, so I might play with really thinning down the Chaos Black for that. I have no idea what kind of paint is on the one's Bobby is alledgedly going to mail me.

It should be noted that the Reaper line's "Phoenix Red" is actually an orange. That being said, it makes an awesome base coat for the Calico Red I found in my parent's storage room. All the blacks and blues have been applied already, now it's just line work and seal/gloss coat.

This line work is going to take up a good chunk of Monday, I am thinking.

My pro tip for the thin lines is a brush with very few but long and soft bristles.

In the end most of the line work was done with tooth picks. I'll post up picks in the projects forum.

Planes wrote:In the end most of the line work was done with tooth picks. I'll post up picks in the projects forum.

Cool, would be good to see. I've tried tooth-picks before, while they don't require the same steady hand as a brush, the results for me were always a bit more "blobby".

Although, this was the last model I used a toothpick on, back in 1995 2nd Edition Ork Mega Armour

(Edit: that's not my paint-job, just some random internet dude's paint job)

Planes wrote:In the end most of the line work was done with tooth picks. I'll post up picks in the projects forum.

I'd just like to reccomend against doing this with everything I've got. This is really the equivalent of buying a brush and using the wrong end to do your painting. It may seem like you're taking a shortcut towards getting results you like but it's worth practicing and learning how to use a brush to paint your details. If you want to improve at something the only way that happens is through practice. Using the right tool for the job is essential too. A toothpick is not a good tool for getting good results on your miniatures.

But it's your hobby. Do what you like I suppose.

It is not that I wouldn't love to work with a proper detailing brush, but when it comes right down to it...

*maths*

... I have less than $300 rolling in this month, and there's $700 worth of rent I have to deal with, not counting food, internet, etc.. Doesn't leave me that much to spend $8 on a brush. Truth be told, I've far exceeded my budget buy buying what paint I did already.

Use any brush you have and just keep the point nice on it. A brush for a buck at the dollar store is a much, much better route to go than the toothpick method. I think.

I have to strongly agree with Scott. I have tried to use a tooth pick as a brush back in the day and it just doesn't cut it. If you need the right brush save for it and then take good care of it. Clean your brushes regularly during a paint session don't let paint dry and get caked on or the bristles will separate. Try to avoid getting paint into where the bristles and the brush meet. At the end of a session wash your brush well with warm water and soap.

Micheals allways has 40% off coupons coming out all the time. If you really want to improve your painting take your time, practice, read lots of tips and ask questions. It's ok to play with grey or randomly painted figs.

Truth be told, I like how my 'Crons have turned out thus far. I lucked out and found a tooth pick that had been split clean down the middle for a pair of super fine ends. I'm probably not going to do any more painting until I get more figs, though. Tristin has offered to pay me for helping him move in the form of a box of Immortals on my birthday, and who knows if Bobby is ever going to get around to mailing me those old 'Crons of his.

If you want to take a gander at what I've done with my 'Crons so far, though, you can find pictures here, though admittedly the photos didn't turn out as well as I would have liked, and the blue doesn't show up that well in there. It's a nice subtle effect you'd see if you held the mini in your hands in decent light.

Dana wrote:At the end of a session wash your brush well with warm water and soap.

BAD!!!!! never ever ever ever ever use warm/hot water! the heat will cause the glue that holds your bristles in place to soften and loosen up, causing your brush to not only lose bristles, but to also splay and fork out instead of keeping their sharp tips. If you're washing your brushes religiously and still have that kind of damage happening, this is why.

alot of the professional courses and videos are telling people to stop using warm water and stick to room temperature water instead, for getting the majority of the excess paint off, and to follow up right afterwards with actual brush cleaner.

my paint station now has a special jar i bought from Michael's, its a Loew Cornell BW-5 Brush Cleaning Jar. its a small... say 6 or 8 oz jar... about the size of a tea cup... jar. and inside there's a blue foam pad with white carpet-like bristles. very soft to the touch. you fill it 1/3 to 1/2 full with brush cleaner solution, and swish your brush gently across the white bristles on the foam pad, and it cleans the brush out and even conditions the bristles to keep them in a nice shaped form.

the cleaner i use in it is also from Loew Cornell, and its in the same aisle on the shelf next to these cleaning jars. its their BW-8 "BETTER WAY brush cleaning fluid for ACRYLIC" it's a 16oz bottle of cleaner. cleaner cost....under $8, and so did the jar i think. stuff works great with GW, and Reaper, and P3 paints. and i imagine Army Painter's brush-on paint line as well, since its acrylic based too. it has no smell, and its non toxic and non flammable, so no headaches. and its also meant for latex and water-based paints as well, so unless your using testors enamel paints, this one bottle will keep all your brushes very nice for a long time.

i've had this bottle since boxing day, and i've only used an inch's worth of cleaner from the bottle, as that's all you need to reach higher than the blue foam pad in the cleaning jar. once the cleaning jar gets really filthy, they just suggest to drain the fluid into a temporary container, rinse out the jar and pad in the sink, and pour the cleaning fluid back in. i only add more fresh stuff if i need to top it up from it dehydrating as its pretty hot in my apt.

i know your tight on cash so this isn't something you'll buy real soon, planes, but its a good investment later on when you get yourself some nice brushes over time. it'll make your brushes go from crapping out over a few months, to lasting you for a few years. but in the mean time, DON'T use warm water! use room temperature water with a couple drops of dish washing soap, and that'll work for now.

Wow.... ok dont use warm water i guess.

Tom, I probably have a brush or two I can give you.

Mike, sometimes the ends of my brushes curl over time. Any ideas what causes that?

Lore Weaver wrote:Tom, I probably have a brush or two I can give you.

Mike, sometimes the ends of my brushes curl over time. Any ideas what causes that?

All synthetic brushes will curl. It's only a matter of time.

While we're on the subject of brushes....

What ARE the best hair types? I tend to use synthetic (white Taklon) for my acrylics, and use a crappy cheap but natural hair for my quik shade (since it's oil based). For some reason I remember hearing synthetic is best for water based (like acrylic) and natural is better fr oil based (which Quick shade is). I'm not so concerned about having the perfect most expensive brush, I have to buy relatively cheap (My wife and I had a long talk after I came home from work and found her doing trim work with my GW lg drybrush.)

The best brushes for what we do are without a doubt kolinsky sable. There's several different brands (I prefer Raphael 8404 myself) but kolinsky sable are the best. The distribute paint better and the natural characteristics of this breeds fur actually mean that each individual bristle tapers which helps aid the flow of paint.

The difference between a synthetic top brush and a top line sable is not even close. The difference is really apparent when using paint thinned at 2:1 water to paint and higher especially. For anyone serious about upping their painting game investing in a good size 1 and size zero brush really makes a world of difference. They are not cheap though.

Ok now I'm feeling stupid. I shoulda realized this earlier.

Kolinsky sable brushes are what comic inkers use for their brushwork. Fine thin lines, etc.