Re: Book discussion - from other thread

[System Commander]

Whoops, sorry Paz, just realized you had posted about Game of Thrones in your thread up top.

I ll have to check out those Malazan books, sound promising.

Thanks for the Pete Jackson lesson, that was pretty much everything I was looking fora ll packed into one. I have yet to see Heavenly Creatures, but heard good things. I also haven't watched Lovely Bones yet, although Im curious. We picked up the audio book on a trip down to Estevan a few years, mainly becasue jackson was directing the movie and I thought Id read the book to find out what it was about. *shrugs* Wasn't my cup of tea, but I imagine he did it to create the limbo world the girl was stuck in.

[ScottRadom]

You guys are off your shitter.

Tolkien was crap tastic.

Tom Bombadil. And people give Lucas =I=censor=I= for Jar Jar. Tolkien gave us the worlds first Jar Jar. Tom Bobadilo! What an awe inspiring and literary feat that was, eh guys? Now are you all tellin gme that if Tolkien had opened himself up to an editor the FIRST thing that wouldn't have happened was a big ole red "X" through every page from the EPIC PACING of Tomb Bombadil and Goldberry?

Holy Cause. Pacing is a lot more than "Hurry up and give me action". The fog on the barrow downs puts the hobbits into direct contact with the undead. AFTER narrowly escaping the FRIGGIN' UNDEAD they make there way to Bree and are in AWE of the big folk, and their big folk ways? Seriously. Yeah. Well done Tokien. You da MAN!!!!!! I can see that. "Man.... those crazy demon dudes that tried to bury us alive were pretty creepy and they scared the shi-OH MY GOD LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THAT BEER!!!!! I HAVE SEEN IT ALL NOW!!!!!"

And the ring. The ring is SUPPOSED to be this awful but powerful weapon that corrupts those around it. Through the course of the story only Boromir, and eventually Frodo, succumb to the ring. Everyone else gives it up. Faramir, mortal of no particular greatness, simply says "No thanks dawg, I'm smoove like dat" and SENDS THE HOBBITS ON THEIR WAY!!!! He doesn't even hear the call of the ring. It's just stupid. The fellowship is this collection of what could mostly be called powerful examples of their race yet only Boromir even considers the ring.

And the scouring of the shire. Awesome EPIC ENDING!!! "Now let's pull his mask off and see who Sharkey really is. OMG IT'S SARUMAN!!!!!."

"And I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn'f for you hobbits and your dog!". It's retarded.

I still like the series. It's got too much good in it to not like. But I also STILL like Star Wars. Lucas, like Tolkien, gave me enough to love so I can try my best to ignore the Scouring of the shire and mitichlorians and Jar Jar.

[Paz]

lol.

I agree with Robyn at this point, its all opinion, I'm not sure why I was trying to argue that on the web, its pretty much impossible to get someone to agree online.

Point of interest though Scott: Aragorn son of Arathorn was last in the line of numenor. he was A Dunedain, the descendants of the ancient Edain ( the first humans, think tall, super long lived ubermensch, the first humans out of the east to meet the elves and make buddy buddy in Beleriand before the sundering.) Thats big =I=censor=I=. Theres a reason Sauron was scared of him. His great great great grandpappy was Isildur, son of Elendil, the dude who held sauron down and chopped off his =I=censor=I= ring hand and killed him (it happened quite a bit diff. in the books than the "oh no without my fings I can't fing lets blow up").
He was basically top notch.
Faramir also was able to deny the ring, because of great moral strength. Everyone else was =I=censor=I= though. Those 9 ringwraith? They were 9 effin kings, and they all fell to the power out of mordor. Only people with the greatest spiritual or moral strength could hold out for long, and even then, they fell eventually (frodo at the end, bilbo as well). You had to be a near god to withstand the ring (gandalf, a maiar spirit and galadriel, the oldest frikkin elf in existence).
So yeah, Aragorn had a darn good excuse to deny the ring.

Robyn- Yeah, the lost tales of the Malazan is tits. Magic is basically pistol powerful, all the way to nuclear bomb powerful.

[ScottRadom]

Paz- I've read the Silmarilion. I have read all the appendices. Aragorn was a descendant of Isildur. Isildur, a less diluted bearer of the blood of Numenor than Aragorn was able to deny the power of the ring. Right? I think that's how it played out. As a Dunedain and King of Gondor he still succumbed. I like that they played up the fear Aragorn had of falling into the same trap as his forefather in the film. In the book he was just more of a "Man, I am DOPE! Watch the =I=censor=I= out Sauron!". Just not as much a fan of that character. Also didn't like the whole bit after the Siege of Minas Tirith where he refused to officially enter the city until he was crowned king. That's a dickhead play man.

If Tolkien wanted to sell me on how all encompassing the power of the ring was, why is it so very, very few people who come in contact with the ring actually give a =I=censor=I= about it? Tim Bombadil WEARS it! By about the 100th page of the book we are subjected to a yellow boot wearin' mo-fo who is IMMUNE to the ring and could potentially have the strength to shield the ring and avert the WHOLE crisis! But Tom don't roll like 'dat yo. The soloution the the problem is presented, then we carry on. A much more risky "fool's hope" of a plan ensues. JUST DELETE TOM BOMBADIL TOLKIEN!!!! Only Boromir thinks that using the weapon to keep his people safe is a good risk. I can't buy into it.

I mean, I still LIKE LotR. I also like a lot of stuff I would never really defend as being quality work. GODZILLA!!!!

I love debating pedantic issues like this. It's fine to disagree. I still hate it when people assume that a difference of opinion is based on ignorance. I mean, we all KNOW Robyn doesn't know what character development is ('cause your thick son!!!! Take that!!!!) but I don't get when people drop the comments like someone can't like something 'cause they don't EVEN know what pacing is all about.

We all read. Lots. Reading a book is the most pure and undiluted form of entertainment as it is the least collaborative between the person with the idea, and the person recieving the idea. It doesn't rely on actors, music, or all the 1000's of names in the credits on any kind of music album or movie. So it makes the most sense that there is the most room for interpretation between idea and realized image. We're all going to walk away from a written story with a different mental image of what the place looked like and smelled like based on our own perceptions. Getting to collaborate with the author, I guess.

Peeps can love themselves some Tolkien all to death. I appreciate the work. Just don't be telling people they don't like it 'cause they don't get it.

[Administratum]

i gotta look into getting a facebook type /like button for these forums.

[Paz]

Reading through your post there Scott, got me thinking.

Lucas was hailed by many as a visionary, a great film maker, and only started sucking in the newest 3 films. I was watching some behind the scenes from the originals, and it seems like Lucas was a sub-par film maker. Most of the additions and things we love about star wars only turned out that way because of editors and the other creative input of others. In the newest 3 films, lucas has total artistic and script control. Is star wars good because of lucas, or good in Spite of lucas? Looking at all the expanded universe ( yeah im still on topic!) there is so much delightful and interesting story that could have been done, but lucas basically wrote the scripts to I, II, and III at the last minute, with little regard to the huge creative engine that has been churning for years around SW.

I hope they get around to making WORLD WAR Z the movie. You guys ever read that? I listened to the audiobook on a roadtrip to comicon a few years ago. Pretty sweet zombie action.
My fav part is a soldier's recounting of one famous zombie engagement by the US military. The incompetence of the US force command had the tanks firing SABO rounds at zombies; anti-tank rounds that zipped right through the horde, doing little damage to the creatures.

[Administratum]

I listened to that on audio book on the recommendations of Scott, Ryan, Robyn, and Dana, all of whom were constantly hounding me to go out and get it almost since the day i met them. I liked the book, but its not up there on my all time greats list. I have never been a fan of short stories, and prefer to spend a long time getting to know and love characters.
The story you mention was one of two that really stuck with me. The other was the pilot who crashed in the swamps, and then made it out on foot with the help of the anonymous radio operator In both cases it was the psychology angle that really did it for me. Unlike most books i really hope to see this one on the bigscreen, it just feels like it would work to me.

I cant believe i even remember those two stories. I listened to that during my own zombie experiment, and not much stuck with me during that time. To emphasize this, i have to admit that i cannot think of a single thing that lucas did other than starwars. I mean there is all the =I=censor=I= that lucas arts pumped out, but that was all games etc...

[Guest]

Wait, people actually think Lucas is good at what he does?

You do know the series started to go downhill with ROTJ, right? It wasn't nearly as good as ESB. It was still good, I guess, but nowhere near the first two. One of the biggest downfalls is the fact that the underlying morals changed completely (for the worse, if you ask me).

And guess who had a hand in the screenplay and a bigger hand in the writing.

Lucas was a visionary for sweet special effects and was a pretty good director (when he was actually forced to direct instead of sitting on piles of money), but that's about it.

[ScottRadom]

Lucas is balls nasty at directing and all that. I agree 100% with you Paz. That's my point about having outside help on a project. Empiure Strikes back and RotJ are not directed by Lucas. The dialougue and acting in all the Lucas stuff is pretty awful despite having some academy award winning talent to work with. The dialogue in Empire is much better delivered and I am 100% it's 'cause the dude who directed it was brought in because he made romantic comedies and stuff before that. Saem with the dude who directed Wrath of Khan (My vote fro the best of the Trek films) he hadn't even watched an episode of the show. Getting outside opinions and working with people are as much interested in perpetuating an epic saga as they are with making quality work is almost always a good thing. If Tolkien had brought in some fresh eyes to go over his work I think the results would have been grand!

I also agree that some of the Star Wars stuff that has SFA to do with Lucas is awesome. I mean, he still has to stamp them and stuff but even the Trailers to that new Star Wars game have sweeter action then anything in the saga. Methinks.

[System Commander]

Im a big Star Wars fan, but I really dont want to get into the whole Lucas thing. It's a really touchy subject.. I have to like Lucas for all the Star Wars he's given us, but you hgave to hate him for all the Star Wars he's given us.. its really drives me crazy.

If you ever get a chance to read the original original screenplay for Star Wars, before anyone else touched besides Lucas, do it.. it is god awful horrible. Ugh., ok, Im getting off the Lucas banter.

World War Z is a go again.. Brad Pitt's production company bought the rights a little while ago, and the most recent word is he's going to be starring in it as the reporter. We talked a bit about it on our podcast, but I really think if they go the way of keeping it as interviews, and then showing all the stories as flashbacks, with the interviewee doing the voice overs, it would probably play EXACTLY as the book reads. I hope they dont try and get fancy with it.. Its funny how much of a celebrity Max Brooks has become by simply making three solid, yet fantastic, zombie books.

[System Commander]

Since this topic has merged into some sort of free for all, I thought I'd take a second to acknowledge that Fury Road is finally a go. Fury Road, is the HIGHLY anticipated (at least by me, and I know a few other people on the forum) new Max Max movie.

I think the Road Warrior is one of greatest films ever made, and for the series to finally get a follow up decades later is exciting. Surprising.. not really, not with all the crazy remakes and redos being created, Hollywood is definitely reeling for ideas, but Im damn excited.

George Miller is directing it, hes done all 3 previous movies. However, he also wrote and directed Happy Feet.. which is pretty scary.

Tom Hardy (he played the lead in Bronson if youve seen it) is playing Max. He's a great actor, and a scary bastard. I'm excited.

[Paz]

Hardy def. looks the part, sounds exciting. I hope its more road warrior than thunderdome though, not that thunderdome wasn't a riproaring good time, just a touch cheesier than roadwarrior.

I'm psyched for Tron 2! eff yeah, I've loved the original since I saw it in england at the age of 4.

Dune news! I heard a new remake is in the works. That crappy director of "the Kingdom" was slated to helm, but I think he's dropped out. I really hope its a grittier version of the tv mini-series, and not Lynch's excessive adaptation. kinetic mind guns for the wierding way? Really dave? Really?

[System Commander]

It better be more Road Warrior than Thunderdome. Besides a few odd gems, mainly Bartertown and Master Blaster, most of the movie just irritated me. They toned down the violence big time, and added the kids I think trying to hit the mainstream market more.. ugh. I'm pretty sure from what I've read is that it will deifnitely be back to more of the car element, which is what made the first two so cult fantastic.

Tron 2 is looking better every time I see something new for it. I definitley enjoyed the movie, but I was a big fan of the stand up arcade game.. when we did have arcades in the city. The young CG Jeff Bridges looks damn amazing.

Anyone see Pirahna 3D yet? Its supposed to be over the top in gore, violenece, and nudity. More important though, Elisabeth Shue is in it.. thats my kind of movie on all four counts.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ecd1ce83d7/ving-rhames-wins-oscar-for-piranha-3d?playlist=featured_videos

[Paz]

Hahahaha "=I=censor=I= you Adrien Brody!" I will watch this now, purely because of this video.

Robyn- damn you are right, Shue is babeliscious. What was the last movie she was in?

[System Commander]

Off the top of my head, I remember her being in Hamlet 2 which was a bizarre, strange movie. She was the best part of the movie, and played herself. She was in a few episodes of Curb your Enthusiasm .. which was a treat.. but it's been really sparse in recent years. I think the last "big" thing she did was Hollow Man.

Karate Kid, Adventures in Babysitting and Cocktail though.. *rowr*. And, she gets naked in Leaving Las Vegas which was a delightful treat.

[gluvzer]

All right lets take it back to Lucas now kids! The best thing to come out of Star Wars is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baRCq3twqww&feature=related

[System Commander]

I love that song.. I have it on a disc in my car.. right after the Knight Rider theme, and before Eastbound and Down..

[Administratum]

That song truly is hands down the best thing to come from a galaxy far far away.

@Robyn, Im pretty sure i dont have to see the movie now because it wont be as good as that vid.

[kerr_matt80]

And to segwey star wars back to the book discussion. I remember really liking the Thrawn series written by Timothy Zahn, they are actually the only star wars books that survived the mass selling last year. It's been years since I read them but I really enjoyed them

[Paz]

thrawn was the shizzle

[System Commander]

I really liked those books when they first came out.. but haven't reread them since. Thats a looooong time ago now thoughb, I think I was in high school when the first one came out.. yikes.

Even after reading them, I couldnt understand why they wouldnt fast track them into follow up movies, they were so good. But nope... we need to pump out tons of =I=censor=I= instead.

[kerr_matt80]

Zahn did a couple more a few years ago too tying into thrawn at different points in the timeline. Survivor quest and outbound flight, they were both really good reads as well. Did any of you read the hand of thrawn series by him?

[System Commander]

Nope, I think I tried reading a couple Star Wars books after the first Zahn series, and they were garbage.

I was at a Q&A several years back at Gencon with RA Salvatore. He was talking about how he was never going to write another Star Wars book. He wrote the one where Chewbacca dies.. he was getting death threats, hate mail, all sorts of crazy stuff happening to him. I found that kind of amusing.

I ll have to check these new Zahn books, they sound promising.

[Paz]

Well, it was kind of retarded.

"Hey, lets have a race with no midichlorians (so jedi can't do =I=censor=I= to them) attack the galaxy! And make them stupid powerful! And the organic aliens are cool, so lets make everything in the army organic. Man, there are too many characters in this shizz, lets kill off Chewbacca and Anakin Solo, those assholes aren't doing anything important. Whats that? The fans are mad?"

S'what star wars gets for bringing on a dragonlance author.

[System Commander]

I know some weird =I=censor=I= had started happening so I just ended up skipping it all.

I didnt hear anything positive about the Salvatore book so skipped it, although I really do enjoy about 75% of the stuff he puts out. Primarily, all of his early Forgotten Realms books are great, although every book pretty much follows the exactly same formula. Although, for quick fantasy reading in a D&D setting, they are among the best.

[Sponsored content]