1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

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1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:44 pm

Commander: missile pod; missile pod; target lock; drone controller; Talisman Of Moloch; Warscaper Drone; marker drone; marker drone. 212

XV104 Riptide: counterfire defence system; velocity tracker; Earth Caste Pilot Array. 235
XV104 Riptide: early warning override; velocity tracker; ion accelerator; twin-linked fusion blaster. 210

3 XV8 Crisis Team:  3xCrisis Shas'ui (fusion blaster; fusion blaster); Bonding Knife Ritual. 159
3 XV8 Crisis Team: 3xCrisis Shas'ui (burst cannon; burst cannon);  Bonding Knife Ritual. 129
3 XV8 Crisis Team: 3xCrisis Shas'ui (flamer; flamer); Bonding Knife Ritual. -- One dude has Vectored Retro Thrusters104
3 XV8 Crisis Team: 3xCrisis Shas'ui (plasma rifle; plasma rifle);  Bonding Knife Ritual. 159

4 Drones: 4× Marker Drone. 56

3 XV88 Broadside Team: Broadside Shas'ui (velocity tracker; twin-linked plasma rifles); Broadside Shas'ui (velocity tracker; twin-linked plasma rifles); Broadside Shas'ui (velocity tracker; twin-linked plasma rifles); Bonding Knife Ritual. 273
3 XV88 Broadside Team: Broadside Shas'ui (counterfire defence system; twin-linked high-yield missile pod); Broadside Shas'ui (counterfire defence system; twin-linked high-yield missile pod); Broadside Shas'ui (counterfire defence system; twin-linked high-yield missile pod); Bonding Knife Ritual. 213

1,750 points

Edit:

Most or all of the suits will outflank or deepstrike.  Commander may outflank with one group, potentially, with the Warscaper Drone | If he doesn't join the Marker Drones.


Last edited by Lore Weaver on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Matthew G on Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:22 pm

Just an Observation.

pg124 mini-rule book.

Up to half units (rounding up) can be placed into reserve.
Of course units that HAVE to be deployed in reserve are ignored (flyers, pods, etc)

Looks like a sweet list, I LOVE suits, my concern is the tactics you stated you wanted to use, unless tau are special and don't count towards units held in reserve.

Smile

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:38 pm

I'd either deploy the Drones behind some LoS blocking terrain, or some flavour of cover. -- could be problematic. Might deploy one of the units of suits???

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Paz on Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:24 pm

Yeah, it's dangerous to use this without having a fair number on the table, to not get wiped first turn.

Ian used a similar list on me the other day, sans broadsides, more suits and farsight himself. But he had a lot on the table. And it pushed in my marine's faces.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Aegwymourn on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:07 pm

The only big problem I see is that you don't have many markerlights. Everything is only bs3, so your games will swing a lot based on your luck. Sure the broadsides are twin-linked and the first riptide at least re-rolls ones. But all the suits will be hit or miss. And you won't be ignoring much cover. The first time your Iontide overheats because you didn't have enough markerlights to re-roll sucks. One of the biggest reasons I play Tau instead of IG is that markerlights make your shooting do fantastic, and horribly frustrating (for your opponent) things.

If I was going to run 2x burst cannon suits I'd want to swing some points for gun drones. Extra shots, a little bit more durability, and adds pinning. Which generally doesn't work, but when it does, hilarious.

Also the flamer suits will either be totally awesome, or fail.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:13 pm

Good points.

Forgot that one of the Flamer Suits has Vectored Retro Thrusters (figured since they'd be in close that they'd want a possibility of getting out of combat).

For 104 points (99 without the thrusters) I like that tool in the tool box. Flaming off the deepstrike can dislodge a lot of scoring things out of cover, which is super cool. I agree that there's going to be games where they have no ideal targets though!

Should I try for two units of Marker Drones? Or six Gun Drones in the Burst Cannon unit? They'd be cool outflanking in! 24S5 shots from the suits, 12S5 shots from the drones, especially with 2 markerlight points, could even put a wound on the screamer star!

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Aegwymourn on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:48 pm

I agree, that for this list the flamers are essential if you come up against any of the horde armies running around these days.

In my 1750 list I run - a markerlight blob (7) w/commander, 6 drones in a suit squad, a unit of 6 pathfinders, and a skyray. I find that I still don't have enough markerlights most turns. People tend to figure out that killing them makes my shooting phase much more erratic and less scary if I don't get to boost BS or ignore cover. Then again a lot of other Tau players think I am silly and there are far to many of them, so YMMV. Try it without first. Then try to squeeze some extra in. See which you prefer more.

Also a side note, Tau vehicles make wonderful moving cover to JSJ behind.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  miv305 on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:57 am

A couple of observations:

No double Missile Pod Suits is a curious choice, I find that they're the ones that do most of the heavy lifting.
The triple Fusion Squad is going to be a letdown, you'll kill one tank and then get jacked.
No stealth suits in an all suit army makes me sad Sad
I think the beauty of Enclave lists is you can have a little HtH support (either Farsight himself or a Commander) and you're not taking advantage of that.
I agree with Tom on adding Gun Drones to your Burst Cannon squad, that much torrent of fire is pretty funny.

I'd look at switching you're Fusion Blaster squad out, adding more Marker Drones if you don't want Pathfinders, and seeing if you can get one HQ in there to beat up a Vt Sgt with a Power Fist.

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:04 pm

Missile Pod Suits would work well. Same points cost as the Fusion suits (30pts for weapons)

That's 12 S7 AP4 36" range shots.

Markerlight support is an issue. Could have 2 units of 6 drones, although at BS2, might not get enough hits (unless drone controller commander joins)


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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Aegwymourn on Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:13 pm

If you have some points left over you can even make one set twin-linked for a pittance (its what 5 points more?).

Mark and I were talking about either a commander with fusion blades/farsight. I don't see either of them being particularly useful; other than to maybe beat up some cultists, which they already do decently well (even warp spiders right Paz  Razz ). Anything that is even remotely good in close combat is still going to wail on either though. If you want HtH support I'd recommend either SM or Eldar allies, both which are BB and bring good stuff to Tau.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  GingerBalls on Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:16 pm

I've found that flamers are better used as wall of death for charging units as if you drop in close enough to flame, you'll be close enough to assault, which is bad. Even with retro-thrusters, you're only going to get away on a 1 or a 2 so not very reliable. Also, I agree with Mike on the HtH element. I used Farsight to great affect against Pascal as unless he's fighting someone who is awesomely dedicated to HtH, he's going to roll units, like tactical marines, who aren't really made for close combat. Plus, dat no scatter deepstrike.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  GingerBalls on Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:18 pm

Aegwymourn wrote:The first time your Iontide overheats because you didn't have enough markerlights to re-roll sucks.

How do Markerlights let you re-roll your gets hot roll on an iontide?

Also, does deepstrike give you outflank? I didn't think suits could outflank.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Planes on Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:27 pm

If you jack up your BS to 6+ through markerlights, the reroll to hit takes care of the Gets Hot most of the time.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Aegwymourn on Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:16 pm

Planes wrote:If you jack up your BS to 6+ through markerlights, the reroll to hit takes care of the Gets Hot most of the time.

This. I generally use 5 markerlights per Iontide. 3 for BS6 so you can re-roll "gets hot" and the scatter (usually resulting in a hit of low scatter), 2 for ignores cover.


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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:28 am

Planes wrote:If you jack up your BS to 6+ through markerlights, the reroll to hit takes care of the Gets Hot most of the time.

But the gets hot roll is separate and when you roll a one the shot doesn't even go off, so I don't see how a twin-link will save you from gets hot on an Iontide. On a Bursttide sure.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Planes on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:35 am

I'm sure Tom M has the page number somewhere, I don't have the book with me at work, but somewhere in there it lists that if you can reroll part of a shot for blast templates, you get to reroll the whole shebang, including the gets hot.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:39 am

Yep, anything that allows a re-roll of 1's means you get to re-roll gets hot. I looked it up for Tom M before Astro.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:43 am

Lore Weaver wrote:Yep, anything that allows a re-roll of 1's means you get to re-roll gets hot.  I looked it up for Tom M before Astro.

Wow, alright then. Good to know since my damn gets hot rolls have gone way up in frequency these days.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Planes on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:44 am

Did a quick Google, and Dakka Dakka pointed me to the end of 'Gets Hot and Re-Rolls' section on page 37 of the BRB, for reference purposes.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:54 am

Spend 3 points to bump your BS to "6" and you can re-roll get's hot.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:50 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:Spend 3 points to bump your BS to "6" and you can re-roll get's hot.

From what I remember you have to re-roll ALL the dice though, not just the gets hot, when you re-roll for blast weapons.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:59 pm

GingerBalls wrote:
Lore Weaver wrote:Spend 3 points to bump your BS to "6" and you can re-roll get's hot.

From what I remember you have to re-roll ALL the dice though, not just the gets hot, when you re-roll for blast weapons.

If you get hot, the shot is lost, so roll that first, if it fails, re-roll it (assuming re-roll 1's of any kind)

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:03 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:
GingerBalls wrote:
Lore Weaver wrote:Spend 3 points to bump your BS to "6" and you can re-roll get's hot.

From what I remember you have to re-roll ALL the dice though, not just the gets hot, when you re-roll for blast weapons.

If you get hot, the shot is lost, so roll that first, if it fails, re-roll it (assuming re-roll 1's of any kind)

I'll have to get into the rulebook. I'm pretty sure it all counts as one roll. Though I suppose it's just as random if you wait and roll the scatter after.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:23 pm

I'll find the exact passage for you later Ian. Work has been dumb today.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

Post  Aegwymourn on Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:09 am

Here is the exact quote from my digital edition Ian "If a model has the ability to re-roll its roll To Hit (inclucing because of BS6+, or Twin-linked), a wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit." (emphasis mine). So that gets us to re-roll the Gets Hot roll.

As to the second part if they are separate: "Weapons that do not roll To Hit (such as Blast weapons) must roll a D6 for each shot immediatly before firing." (empahsis mine). Since the D6 roll is before we fire the weapon it cannot be part of the re-roll granted to the 2d6+scatter die.

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Re: 1750 Enclaves | Must be all suits | Where are my problems

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