Dealing with Gonzo

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Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Rhaevyn on Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:04 am

So, i've lost 3 or so games so far to gonzo stupid Jump MC's lately and it occurs to me that the meta has left me behind. i've been playing defensive/shooty csm since 6th came out, and it was working. but the Tau/Daemons/Eldar books all do what i was doing better and for less points... as well as fielding large "fox in the hen house" Jump MC's that cannot be ignored.

i've come up with the below, which is a much more offensive list. The scoring Chosen don't seem so bad when you think about hidden fists in the squad that can't be challenged out. they are still not fearless.... but what can you do?

everything swarms forward and gets in your face. I'm giving infiltrate to Abbadon and conferring it to the termies, if my opponent has a different take on the rules, i'll gladly roll it off, or hope for a 2 on my d3.

either Abbadon or the nurgle bike lord take on the (hopefully softened up) MCs - nurgle lord with murder sword if its a character mc, both of them if its a riptide or a wraithknight.

Flyers... dont matter if i kill all your stuff on the ground?


1750 Pts - Chaos Space Marines Roster

HQ: Abaddon the Despoiler (1#, 265 pts)
. . 1 Abaddon the Despoiler, 265 pts (Veterans of the Long War; Black Crusader)

Elite: Chaos Terminators (4#, 141 pts)
. . 3 Chaos Terminators, 141 pts (Power Axe x2; Power Maul x1; Combi-Meltagun x3)
. . . . 1 Terminator Champion (Power Maul)

Heavy Support: Maulerfiend (1#, 125 pts)
. . 1 Maulerfiend, 125 pts

Troops: Chosen (11#, 290 pts)
. . 9 Chosen, 290 pts (Power Fist x2; Meltagun x2)
. . . . 1 Chosen Champion (Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Close Combat Weapon)
. . . . 1 Chaos Rhino (Combi-Boltgun; Combi-Bolter)

Troops: Chaos Space Marines (11#, 210 pts)
. . 9 Chaos Space Marines, 210 pts (Meltagun; Meltagun; Veterans of the Long War)
. . . . 1 Aspiring Champion (Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Close Combat Weapon; Veterans of the Long War)
. . . . 1 Chaos Rhino (Combi-Boltgun; Combi-Bolter)

HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 160 pts)
. . 1 Chaos Lord, 160 pts (Mark of Nurgle; Bolt Pistol; Chaos Bike; Sigil of Corruption)
. . . . 1 The Murder Sword

Fast Attack: Chaos Bikers (3#, 123 pts)
. . 2 Chaos Bikers, 123 pts (Mark of Nurgle; Meltagun x2)
. . . . 1 Biker Champion (Bolt Pistol; Power Axe x1)

Fast Attack: Chaos Bikers (3#, 123 pts)
. . 2 Chaos Bikers, 123 pts (Mark of Nurgle; Meltagun x2)
. . . . 1 Biker Champion (Bolt Pistol; Power Axe x1)

Troops: Chaos Cultists (10#, 50 pts)
. . 9 Chaos Cultists, 50 pts
. . . . 1 Cultist Champion

Heavy Support: Chaos Vindicator (1#, 130 pts)
. . 1 Chaos Vindicator, 130 pts (Siege Shield)

Heavy Support: Chaos Vindicator (1#, 130 pts)
. . 1 Chaos Vindicator, 130 pts (Siege Shield)

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Deadlytoaster on Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:28 am

Looks good to me man. Enough big stuff to bring down the big stuff at range or in CC. Enough bolter rounds and bodies to kill the fodder with rhinos to get in positon, and lastly some speedy bikes to put pressure on fast and hit hard in CC (especially with the biker lord in there). I guess i would mostly be concerned about Abbadon being able to make it into CC seeing as he's hoofing 'er across the board, though infiltrate does mitigate alot of that.

I think you just need to try it out now and see how it plays against a few different lists.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:44 am

I think you'll like the Maulerfiend.

How does Abadon infiltrate?

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Guest on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:09 am

Lore Weaver wrote:I think you'll like the Maulerfiend.

How does Abadon infiltrate?
Indeed, how does abaddon infiltrate? I thought he was always the 'black crusader' for preferred enemy(marines). Otherwise looks like you may still need AA, although I have no suggestion for how to get that within the Codex.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Rhaevyn on Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:26 pm

Shit. Got his and ahrimans warlord traits mixed.

BLah.

Anyone want to buy some csm?

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:27 pm

Take Huron Blackheart, he's a beating.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Rhaevyn on Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:47 pm

Huron doesn't do shit to anyone that matters unfortunately. He doesn't survive to even attack most other HQ's or MC.

The entire idea is to try to match the rediculous crap that has come out since 6th turned into the same escalation BS that happened with 5th.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  judchic on Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:46 pm

I like him. his random power can be good or bad depending, i had one game where he sprinted out of a rhino to jump into an oblit squad to make their plasma rifles ignore cover for a round (hello turbo boosting bikes) and his claw can threaten lots with str 6 ap3 shred. i think for 160 he's a bit overcosted.
sidenote, huron + warpsmith with burning brand + chosen with 5 flamers and combiflamer= 9 flamer templates. not amazing at over 443pts but would be funny to see.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Rhaevyn on Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:33 pm

hes I5 with no invul. which makes him food for anything but other marines and the odd necron if he passes his mindshackle test.

hes pretty good,  for what he does. for sure.

but he sure isnt an answer for a bloodthirster, a riptide or a wraithknight. or any of the other characters from those books.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  judchic on Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:13 pm

he's got a 4+invul from his sigil of corruption and most individual units can't deal with those big things. sure abaddon or lysander could smash a wraithknight or riptide in close combat (not so much on bloodthirster but humor me) but its getting further and further away from "my big guy can crush your big guy" because the new big guys are bloody fast. riptides can move so far in a turn and still shoot that its silly.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Rhaevyn on Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:59 pm

yes.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:13 pm

Khorne DP with a Blood Axe thing? (I suppose T5's an issue).

I got lucky with Ahriman and force weaponed a couple, if he rolls Iron Arm, it's not unlikely, if he doesn't, he needs 6's to wound and has to hope he doesn't get squished (charge in with some buddies!)

Actually, any force weapon wielding dude can do it, as long as it's a force stave. I might convert up one of my Thousand Sons sorcerers... man, that'd hurt someone's feelings if they got pwn'd by that guy.

--

Mike, I think you had it right against me, I just managed to get Fortune and kept casting it on the Wraith Knight. Oblits, Plasma Guns, Lascannons, etc... I don't think you *need* to squish it in close combat. You should be able to keep out of CC with it until its second or third turn (deploy away from it).

Bloodthirster isn't as scary, as he's T6.

--

I do get satisfaction out of the Wraithknight stepping on Necron Lords though. "I passed my mindshackle test! Squish" also "I failed my mindshackle test, I hit myself and make a 5++ save, now you're blinded to WS/BS 1"

--

Heldrake Vector Strike, S7 AP3 D3+1 hits, you should get a wound, maybe two, and the Knight will be down to invuls. Also works good on the Blood Thirster (Wounding on 3's, only Invuls). -- This is how Gavin smoked Kairos when we played.

--

If you want to proxy a game with a Mauler fiend or two, let me know. I think they're amazing, but you might want to be sure before you drop the cash on the models. A pair of them would probably eat a Riptide?? (not so sure... due to smashyness) -- Maulerfiends assault on Turn 2 though. They're scary to look at on the board, and are only 125 points. If you ally in Daemons, you can give the Maulerfiend a 3++ save with the Grimoire.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  System Commander on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:15 pm

Besides bowing down and taking one of your own.. not a lot of options for csm before theyre on ya on turn 2.

Even when i was playing Adam,  my bloodthirster made it two turns without taking a wound or being grounded. Insta death weapons are scary.. but non existent for csm. Abbadon is a good alternative buts hes so slow.

Without taking a big daddy myself.. i wouldnt know where to start... giving a decent assault unit invis and hope they can take him out.. ? Pretty bad odds   hehe.  Smile

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  judchic on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:41 pm

less than WS5 vs bloodthirster is just asking for a bad time. abaddon is slow but if he's babysitting in the middle of a force a bloodthirster would have to work for it. abaddon can kill em fairly reliable right?

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  System Commander on Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:31 pm

He could go toe to toe... but the odds are in the thirsters favour. Abbadon has a 4+ invul and immune to the axe of khorne.. but thirster has more attacks (unless he uses drachnyen) . Itd go.a few rounds.. and theres a good chance the thirster has a few rewards so fnp 4+, +1 wound and it will not die, fleshbane, or reroll failed invul saves.. all good against abbadon. 

The csms best chance against a thirster is probably a dp with biomancy maybe and a black.mace? *shrugs* Black mace could still take him out if he rolled.a 6 for a toughness... but still, the thirster goes first on init and insta kills on a 6 to wound unless your.biomancy powers work out. 

Shooting the thirster is such a pain.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:11 am

Abbadon can tie him up for a couple turns, do a couple/three wounds before dieing.  that's all i ask Smile

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  System Commander on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:26 am

Lets go supplements !

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:18 pm

Ya, there's potential there.

A supplement for each cult? Mike, I still think you're over thinking it. When I played against you, I got stupid lucky.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Planes on Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:18 pm

Heck, Night Lords got no core codex support.  I would find myself far more prone to running Raptors if I could swing some kind of Night Lord supported list.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  System Commander on Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:26 pm

Id love to see something to give berserkers a bump in the better. I can win assaults if Kharne ia.bamging out with them.. otherwise they tend to get slowly beatdown. I think moreso  to the darn champion of chaos rule. 
Even better though.. scoring terminators.. ! Or raptors/bikes. both would be.cool. Useful possessed is asking far too much.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:04 pm

Possessed are one of those units that I like to think about...  Grimoire'd, they could be devastating, and the can assault on turn 2

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  judchic on Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:02 pm

I would just like to see something similar to atsknf. Brutal to have 10 guys lose combat by one and get wiped.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  System Commander on Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:24 pm

I would really just like to see a guranteed ability more than anything. They were very popular in 4th because you buy Talons for them.. and they were cheaper.

Random though.. argh. I have really thought about trying the grimoire.. but... *sigh* why no grenades? Alot of these dedicated assault units without at least frag grenades irritates me to no end.

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  judchic on Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:36 pm

what were talons? and the grenades are refering to daemons or CSM?

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:40 pm

What about that Khorne thingy that makes it count like you have grenades?

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Re: Dealing with Gonzo

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