Chaos Boons, from shooting?

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Chaos Boons, from shooting?

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:04 pm

Hey,

I was reviewing the Chaos Boon table, it mentions that "If an enemy character dies as a result of multiple wounds being allocated to it simultaneously, and one of those is from the champion, that champion still rolls on the Chaos Boon table."

So I was thinking, "Does that include shooting?" It appears that the only reference to close combat in that rule is the "Must issue and accept challenges".

Chaos players, review the rule and see if it does apply to shooting attacks. If Ahriman insta-gibs a Sergeant with Spontaneous Combustion, I think he would roll on the boon table.

Edit: I cross posted on dakka to see what their rules lawyers say too.

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Re: Chaos Boons, from shooting?

Post  Planes on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:16 pm

"Whenever a character with the Champion of Chaos special rule kills an enemy character, you must immediately check to see if the Dark Gods reward him." That is the key sentence for the whole shebang, and no where in there does it mention melee, range, tank shock, or anything else. As near as I can tell, a kill is a kill is a kill. Somewhat makes me sad that I can't give a Noise Champion a Blast Master or my Cultist Champion a Heavy Stubber.

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Re: Chaos Boons, from shooting?

Post  Rhaevyn on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:43 pm

noise champ does get a doom siren though...

i agree that the rules, if taken directly as written, in a vacuum, support this hypothesis. However, when taken "in context"as they are written as below, I'm not on board. As it specifically mentions combat in every sentence before that specific one, and there is no paragraph break to indicate that the rules are meant to be taken as separate entities. I would rule that chaos boons are only rewarded in combat, and i might be convinced to only reward chaos boons for character kills made in challenges. Which is very clearly the intent of the "champion of chaos" special rule.

"A model with the Champion of Chaos special rule must
always issue and accept a challenge whenever possible.
If there is more than one model in a combat with this
special rule, you may select which model issues or accepts
the challenge. Whenever a character with the Champion
of Chaos special rule kills an enemy character, you must
immediately check to see if the Dark Gods reward him. "

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Re: Chaos Boons, from shooting?

Post  Planes on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:02 pm

Str 5, 8" range doesn't really compare to Str 8, 48" range, though.

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Re: Chaos Boons, from shooting?

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:56 am

That's what I thought too, but then it goes on this big paragraph about killing characters outside of challenges.

To be honest, it's not come up much.

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Re: Chaos Boons, from shooting?

Post  judchic on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:17 am

Champ fires pistol. Rolls 6 to hit. Shot allocated to enemy character. Character fails Los/armor save n dies. Chaos gets roll on chart. It just says when the character kills or is part of the wounds that kill. No reason he shouldn't get a roll.

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Re: Chaos Boons, from shooting?

Post  System Commander on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:49 am

Thats an odd one. Ive just taken it as always killing a character in a challenge.. Which i do think the obvious intention was.

I can sort of see the wording problem with regards to shooting.. But not sold on it meaning that. Hmm.

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Re: Chaos Boons, from shooting?

Post  judchic on Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:19 pm

just sounds simple as chaos marines with champ shoot bolters. bolters kill 3 marines and sergeant. chaos champ gets to roll because his posse helped him achieve greatness. oddly worded, but unless he ascends to prince or devolves to spawn wont change the game much for either player. silly part is if you throw 2 meltaguns in the mix. if one of the 2 meltaguns kills one then he doesn't roll because bolter shots are resolved at a different time.

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Re: Chaos Boons, from shooting?

Post  Guest on Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:29 am

@judcheck: I would disagree with your analysis.

The way I see it, you have to roll for the champion separate from the squad. In the same way that if you want to take advantage of precise shots, I roll my vet separate from the squad. If the champion shot gets the kill, which in my view is plausible given that the attaching player chooses wound allocation order, the champion receives a gift.

This has come up for me with Plasma Pistol shots, and Doom Siren blasts/overwatch.

For RAW vs RAI, I would argue that the paragraph on your champ helping take someone down would only come up out of duels.

Ex: 7 man plague marines squad with 2 Plasma guns and combi-plas on champion. The Unit fires rapid fire plasma at a character hive tyrant -->The champion combi-bolter/plasmagun rolled separately does wound the hive tyrant, the 2 other plasma guns in the squad get 3 more wounds on the hive tyrant, it dies! Champ gets a roll on the chart.

Duels are pretty specifically 2 characters fighting without any intervention. Unless a template scatters onto enemy character's head, not much can intervene in a duel. The existence of the help killing part would only apply to normal combat, or shooting. By that line I would argue chaos boons are for any character killing any character ever, as long as his attack roll was done separately from his squad's.

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Re: Chaos Boons, from shooting?

Post  System Commander on Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:37 am

Yeah.. Thats a great example of why "shooting for boons" wouldnt work.

Im still pretty convinced the design team meant duels only.. But something that needs a faq.or wording fix.up.

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Re: Chaos Boons, from shooting?

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:37 am

Thread Necro:

I asked on Dakka!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/569794.page

----

Thoughts?

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