Scenario changes - next league

A few personal opinions.

Not a fan of objective all along the back lines in deployment zones. I tend to like missions like the relic, because the obj is in no man's land.

Maybe 1-3 Dawn of war, 4-5 Vanguard, 6 hammer and anvil?

If we can come up with 3 more secondary objectives (table quarters, high ground, etc) we could just roll 3 times for secondaries.

Dom, what've you done with Robyn! *kidding*

As long as we keep it easy, I think it's fine. I don't think I've played a single game this league that's used Mysterious Terrain. I've played a few games where Mysterious Objectives were not used (some on purpose, some by accident).

I think having myserious objectives can be interesting and fun, but should be optional. I like having them in for a shot at getting Skyfire, +1 Cover, 1/2 charge range, and re-roll 1's when shooting.

Mysterious Terrain is a pain.

I'm fine with something as simple as "book missions" or "league missions" and have our own 3 missions or something. I like the bay area open idea of playing two missions at once, a primary and a secondary, then the first blood, line breaker, and slay the warlord counting as +1 each.

(For example, if you win on objectives, you get +4, if you win on kill points, you get +2, then the bonus things are each worth +1)

Whatever we do, we'd have to play test it a bit to make sure it's fair and easy to do.

In the Bay Area Open missions, they do a couple of neat things with objectives.

- Crusade Objectives (always 3) must be placed outside of either players deployment zone
- Scouring Objectives, each player must place 2 in opponents zone and 1 in no-mans land, then out of the ones you placed, one is worth 1, another 2, and lastly 3, all determined randomly.
- Big Guns Objectives are each player must place 2 in opponents zone

A Few thoughts:

- Change the game to placing objectives before choosing deployment, I do this in almost all of my games of 6th ed and no ones complained. There is a reason for the changes to this setup from last edition, fortifications. You need to place fortifications before terrain is placed to allow for space, and you don't want to setup a fortification on your opponents deployment zone so you need to know your side before the terrain is placed. It makes sense to then setup terrain and then setup objectives as in 5th edition to give more of a narrative to where the objectives are placed. However in the games that I have played we've setup terrain, rolled for mission, rolled for deployment style, placed objectives, rolled for deployment zone and then if terrain needs to be nudged to allow for the placement of a fortification then its no big deal (This is where the first rule of 40k, "Don't be a total dickhead!" comes into play, unfortunately GW has not embossed this on the cover of all their rulebooks as per my suggestion)

- Don't make primary and secondary objectives the same way we had in 5th ed, the new style of objectives with primary worth 3pts and secondary worth 1pt is the best thing to happen to 40k, The game feels much more dynamic that way.

- Don't change the deployment styles to suit the army's that most people play, Tau and guard love Hammer and Anvil deployment as it advantages them most. No game is decided before the first turn, slight advantages are gained but if you roll for first turn / deployment zone after placing objectives then placing objectives deep in "your" own deployment zone becomes very costly when it turns out to be your opponents deployment zone.

-Leave rolling for deployment style as it is in the book.

- Adding in some more objectives worth 1 victory point would be cool.

Take this suggestions as pure gospel, I will not lead you astray,

Amen.

I'm with Tom on obj, I'd rather see additional seconadaries, and if you are playing 2 primaries simultaneously, one is worth more/tweaked/etc.

Ex. Emporers will and Relic.
The Emporors Will obj are worth 3 VP and the Relic is worth say 5.

Crusade/Purge the Alien could be a very good all around basic mission.

Relic has always felt like half of a mission to me. Using it as a mixer would go a long way to help it, I think.

Here's a few thoughts.

Deployment: Same
Missions: Only Crusade and Purge the Alien stay.
The Emporors Will and Relic are combined into "Capture the Flag". Bases are 3VP and the Relic is 5VP.
Secondary Objectives: roll 3d6, rerolling any duplicates
1) First Blood
2) Slay the Warlord
3) Linebreaker
4) Send in the Vets!: Elites (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.
5) Cavalry: Fast Attack Choices (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.
6) The Big Guns: Heavy Support Choices (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.

I'm tending to go with the line of thinking that 1/2 the objectives you place (rounding up) must be outside your deployment zone.

I'm aware this is rough. That's why I'm posting:) Any comments/criticism/loopholes I'm not seeing?

Thats actually fairly neat and tidy Beau. I wouldn't mind using that at all.

This sounds pretty solid. Just wondering, though, has NOVA come up with any 6th ed missions yet?

Rhaevyn wrote:Thats actually fairly neat and tidy Beau. I wouldn't mind using that at all.

Its tight, but I'm trying to work other possible secondaries in (High Ground, Quarters, etc.) and the actual missions feels a bit bare.

I think Purge the Alien needs an adjustment of some sort. High KP vs Low KP armies are still broken. (MSU marines vs Draigowing for instance)

Roland wrote:

Rhaevyn wrote:Thats actually fairly neat and tidy Beau. I wouldn't mind using that at all.

Its tight, but I'm trying to work other possible secondaries in (High Ground, Quarters, etc.) and the actual missions feels a bit bare.

I think Purge the Alien needs an adjustment of some sort. High KP vs Low KP armies are still broken. (MSU marines vs Draigowing for instance)

You could always go back to the old points system?

Roland wrote:Here's a few thoughts.

Deployment: Same
Missions: Only Crusade and Purge the Alien stay.
The Emporors Will and Relic are combined into "Capture the Flag". Bases are 3VP and the Relic is 5VP.
Secondary Objectives: roll 3d6, rerolling any duplicates
1) First Blood
2) Slay the Warlord
3) Linebreaker
4) Send in the Vets!: Elites (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.
5) Cavalry: Fast Attack Choices (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.
6) The Big Guns: Heavy Support Choices (including any vehicles) are scoring units, but count as an additional VP if slain.

I'm tending to go with the line of thinking that 1/2 the objectives you place (rounding up) must be outside your deployment zone.

I'm aware this is rough. That's why I'm posting:) Any comments/criticism/loopholes I'm not seeing?

This. Although I say make the Relic 4pts. 4+Extras = 4-7, 3+Extras = 3-6. Otherwise, the relic is worth too much and it becomes a game of Relic anyway.
(5-8 vs 3-6, you'd have to win secondary and all the extras to win the game without the relic)

Mark, there would be 3 pt obj in that, so you could take both of those and would only need to tie on secondary obj (tie breaker and the like) to win. That said it'd be basically the same with 4VP. Either way if you take the Relic and one other objective, you're going to win (as you likely should). If the relic is the same 3 VP, you run the possibility of someone taking 2 obj and still only getting a tie. (though not likely)

Aegwymourn wrote:

Roland wrote:

Rhaevyn wrote:Thats actually fairly neat and tidy Beau. I wouldn't mind using that at all.

Its tight, but I'm trying to work other possible secondaries in (High Ground, Quarters, etc.) and the actual missions feels a bit bare.

I think Purge the Alien needs an adjustment of some sort. High KP vs Low KP armies are still broken. (MSU marines vs Draigowing for instance)

You could always go back to the old points system?

I like the old point system, it just always seems like it takes too long to count up. I believe You could scale everyones KP to say 15 pretty easily.

Player one kills 7 out of a possible 10 KP. They get 10.5VP

Player two kills 13/20 KP. They get 9.75 KP

Its more fair, but still time consuming. What would people rather do?

That was always the argument I heard as well. But really does adding take that long? I dunno always seemed fishy to me as an excuse. Especially if people bring a legible army list it shouldn't be that hard.

I think it was more "if the vehicle is damage/immobilized it counts half.... If the squad is below 1/2 str they count half..... etc." The OCD part of me says if the model is on the table it counts. No if ands or buts. That said the newer codexes make even that fun.....

Tactical squad-90pt
each additional marine-+16....

I know how *I'd* split that up, but I someone is gonna split hairs over it.

With a 1 in 3 chance of playing a killpoint mission and the offsetting extra victory points (1st blood, etc...), I think KP's are probably fine.

Sorry about my other math Beau, I was confused between 3VP's for winning the objective war, not 3VP's per objective. It makes more sense the way you have it.

So... that said... I like it as is! :-) I like how you wrapped up big guns and scouring as secondary objectives. I would add that "Flyers never score", just for clarity and to prevent beardyness (Objective placed on third floor of a ruin and flyer zooms in from reserves on turn five to "claim" it, seems lame)

"zooming and swooping flyers never score"

I cant see why a hovering or gliding flyers couldn't claim.

Rhaevyn wrote:"zooming and swooping flyers never score"

I cant see why a hovering or gliding flyers couldn't claim.

Fair enough.

Rhaevyn wrote:"zooming and swooping flyers never score"

I cant see why a hovering or gliding flyers couldn't claim.

I dunno spending the whole game zooming/swooping and last turn changing to hover to grab an objective might rub me the wrong way. Especially if they are going second. Although as more fliers are made and there are more ways to deal with them it will probably end up fine.

Sorry i havent chimed in yet. Been a busy day here.

Ill offer some ideas tonight as well. I like where its going but have.some input to share.

I like.kill points as they are.. A small balance to keep some massive msu lists at bay. Im also leaning towards the idea of a base mission which might be 3-5.objectives and then the random secondaries. Two charts might be the way to.go.for.secndaries though.. Id.only like to see one roll that could possibly turn fa, hs or elies into possible vp or scoring units. Getting all three for one person.. Which im sure will happen might be a bit rough.

Ill pop on later with some more brainstorming, but its shaping up

Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord are "always on" (and always achievable by both armies) roll a D4 for the other one?