Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

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Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:48 pm

On first read, one D6 re-roll per phase for the Cryptek or the unit he's with is very... meh.

But then... it's a re-roll per phase for the Cryptek or the unit he's with

Example.

Cryptek joins unit of Warriors/Immortals. Imotek joins the same unit. Here are his options. He gets one of these re-rolls each phase.

Necron turn 2
Movement Phase
- Imotek fails night fight roll at begining of the movement phase. Gets a re-roll.
Shooting Phase
- Imotek doesn't roll a '6' on that pesky rhino, hoping to lightning it up. Gets a re-roll.
- or Imotek doesn't get a high roll for his staff of destruction. Gets a re-roll.
- or Imotek hits a rhino with his lightning, but his D6 gives him only 1 hit. Gets a re-roll.
- or Warriors / Immortals score a glancing hit on a vehicle, roll a 1-3 on the result table. Gets a re-roll.
- Running? Roll a 1. Re-roll that son.
Assault Phase
- I'm not assaulting on my turn! (well, not likely)

Enemy turn 2
Movement Phase
- Can't see an immediate use here
Shooting Phase
- Enemy shoots Assault Cannon (ap4) at attached warrior unit. Assign one hit to Imotek. He fails 2+ save, gets a re-roll.
- Imotek dies! *ghasp* Fails Reanimation Protocols. Gets a re-roll.
- A single Warrior gets a re-roll on reanimation protocols.
Assault Phase
- Roll a 9 on Leadership when you needed an 8 or less. Re-roll that!
- Running anyway (5 or less required on LD). Roll 1-3 on initiative. Re-roll it!
- Imotek fails a 2+ Re-roll it!
- Imotek kills a character (seargant or something), roll a 1 on your d3? Re-roll it!

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:14 pm

If it works that way, and my reading and re-reading of the rules says it does. its definitely a very good upgrade.

p 48 of the BRB seems to hold up your premise you could even just have the cryptek and imotek as a unit would allow this.

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Timbo on Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:01 pm

Well, if Imotek + Cryptek + Chrono-whatever costs 300 points I would hope it would do all that stuff and more. 300 points is a lot of points. A lot of freakin' points.

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re cyotek

Post  Commander James of the Ul on Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:58 pm

Timbo wrote:Well, if Imotek + Cryptek + Chrono-whatever costs 300 points I would hope it would do all that stuff and more. 300 points is a lot of points. A lot of freakin' points.

Tim your always so bloody cheap. Think of the bigger picture.
As a SM player this whole thing as me goimg DAM...

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:39 pm

I just enjoy saying, "Roll a one? Re-roll that son."
Edit---
Justed pointed it out, 265. Imotek Lightning combined with Phaeron and night fight (to position scarabs) is worth the points.

Imotek is 225, the Cryptek is 25, free upgrade to time dude, +15 points for the chronometron.

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Timbo on Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:05 am

[quote="Commander James of the Ul]
Tim your always so bloody cheap. Think of the bigger picture.
As a SM player this whole thing as me goimg DAM...[/quote]

Not entirely sure where this comes from. Do I even know you? I also play space marines. I know a thing or two about what 265 points can get me. Imotek is a character who carries a lot of risk because of his cost. He can win a game against a mech-heavy army with some hot rolling. He also can be completely useless with some cold rolling. In addition, our opponent will see him as a threat and will likely try to kill him. If he succeeds (and sometimes our opponents do succeed), we will likely lose the game after our very expensive man and accompanying unit are removed. People who play death star type units are used to this, but the problem with Imotek is that he makes the unit have death star cost without death star durability. Random elements like Imotek's lightning are great for fun games because they make for wackiness and cool anecdotes. They are not good for tournaments because the randomness will likely cost you a game over the course of the day (just ask CSM players why they only take dreadnoughts in fun games). MSU type builds are popular and viable because they have two excellent qualities for tournaments: redundancy and consistency. I can lose a unit or two and not lose a lot of capability. That mantra has given me a great deal of success in 5th edition.

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:19 am

Isn't that stash?

I think the night fight is the kicker, more than the lightning. Provides turn 1 and 2 survivability to your army.

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Veyure on Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:06 am

Lore Weaver wrote:Isn't that stash?

I think the night fight is the kicker, more than the lightning. Provides turn 1 and 2 survivability to your army.

You can get that effect for a lot cheaper using a cyrptek. No lightning, but the nightfight is a gooder.

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Timbo on Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:27 pm

No, Stash hasn't posted on here in forever. I'm pretty sure he is Lord_Commander_Stash. As for the night fight, maybe. Night fight will be good versus certain armies, but almost every army will be looking to close the distance against you anyhow. Necron firepower at 24" is pretty much the same as it is at point blank. However other armies get bigger advantages at very close ranges with melta bonuses and potential assaults. I think one of the keys with Necrons will be keeping enemies in this 24" sweet spot. Here solid threatening units and maneuverability will be key instead of tricks and expensive gimmicks. If your opponent has to worry about being counterassaulted and at least play it a little cagey instead of bum-rushing right in it will play to the Necron guy's advantage.

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:57 pm

Timbo wrote:No, Stash hasn't posted on here in forever. I'm pretty sure he is Lord_Commander_Stash. As for the night fight, maybe. Night fight will be good versus certain armies, but almost every army will be looking to close the distance against you anyhow. Necron firepower at 24" is pretty much the same as it is at point blank. However other armies get bigger advantages at very close ranges with melta bonuses and potential assaults. I think one of the keys with Necrons will be keeping enemies in this 24" sweet spot. Here solid threatening units and maneuverability will be key instead of tricks and expensive gimmicks. If your opponent has to worry about being counterassaulted and at least play it a little cagey instead of bum-rushing right in it will play to the Necron guy's advantage.

Imotek also has the Phaeron rule (which, admittedly you can get much cheaper on an Overlord) which grants the unit he's with the Relentless special rule.

Move and Fire for your Warriors or Immortals with Gauss.

I've played the 20 warriors with Phaeron, it works surprisingly well (move away, shoot, move away, shoot).

I think if the use of gimmicks is unfocused, then Necrons are bad. If the use of gimmicks aligns with your overall strategy, then it's really really good.

Think of it this way, on turn one, if my opponent has 3 Rhino's, on average, I'll pop one with lightning. My Doomscythe will not get shot at (as I'll deploy it back a bit) and it won't need to see to shoot. All the while, I'll be re-positioning my troops to the best possible effect. :-) 225 is expensive, but for the utility it offers, I think it's a fair deal. (especially if you can assault off deepstrike in 6th)

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Timbo on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:01 pm

I don't get your math on the rhinos with Imotek's lightning. Rolling a 6 to affect a rhino certainly does not kill it. You need to penetrate the armour, then roll a wreck result. Just doing d6 str 8 hits to an armour 11 target doesn't wreck it. Regarding the relentless, at 12-24" that is about 2 glances. Any damage on vehicles is good damage. Phaeron definitely helps in keeping enemies away, but as you say it can be had for much less on a generic lord.


Last edited by Timbo on Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:45 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:18 pm

Timbo wrote:I don't get your math on the rhinos with Imotek's lightning. Rolling a 6 to affect a rhino certainly does not kill it. You need to penetrate the armour, then roll a wreck result. Just doing d6 str 8 hits to an armour 11 target doesn't wreck it.

You have a 52% (ish... I didn't actually calculate it) chance of rolling 1 or more 6's on 3 dice. Assuming an average roll on the ensuing D6 (3? or re-roll if you don't like it with the chrono :-) ) you should get a pen and a glance. You may not wreck the rhino, but you *should* stop it from moving, at least.

Regarding the relentless, at 12-24" that is about 2 glances. Any damage on vehicles is good damage. Phaeron definitely helps keeping enemies away, but as you say it can be had for much less on a generic lord.

Here... I have to agree with you. It's a good thing to have on a lord with 20 warriors... Imotek doesn't have a rez orb. A lord with a Scythe (which Imotek doesn't have), an Orb, and Phaeron is 150 pts. Toss in Scarabs and you're at 165. That's almost another Annihilation Barge.

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Timbo on Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:07 pm

So 165 for generic lord and 260 worth of warriors. By my math that's 425 points. That's a lot of points for a unit that will put 1-3 glances on a vehicle in the shooting phase and have to be kept out of HtH. At least it's scoring I guess.

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:27 pm

was just rereading chronometron. and it says that you make one reroll during each Phase of each turn, yes?

There are three phases in a turn.
movement phase,
shooting phase
assault phase.

Imoteks night fight roll happens at the start of the turn, not at the start of any actual phase. so you couldn't use the chrono to re roll a fail, yes?

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:36 pm

Imoteks night fight roll happens at the start of the turn, not at the start of any actual phase. so you couldn't use the chrono to re roll a fail, yes?

I've seen that argument on the Internet. I think you would get a re-roll. Here's why.

Either the start of the turn is the start of the movement phase, and thus, a phase (the movement phase). Or there's suddenly a new unspoken phase called "before movement phase", which is still a phase. (If it's not a phase of your turn, is it even your turn yet?)

I'm in the camp that it's part of the movement phase, but before you actually move stuff. If you choose to use your re-roll here, you can't re-roll one of your D6 for a difficult terrain roll.

That said, I've seen it argued convincingly on both sides, until it's FAQ'd it's a bit up in the air. Chronometron is still a must have though. So many uses, like re-rolling an invulnerable save against a multi-melta hit you put on Imotek :-)

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:16 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:

That said, I've seen it argued convincingly on both sides, until it's FAQ'd it's a bit up in the air. Chronometron is still a must have though. So many uses, like re-rolling an invulnerable save against a multi-melta hit you put on Imotek :-)

lol, first thing i thought of is the epic look on imotek's player's face when he fails that save for the second time Smile

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:18 pm

Tim knows that look :-)

*laughs* (I failed the nightfight re-roll on turn 3, had one turn of lightning that missed everything, turn 1 his army was not on the board (dawn of war)).

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Re: Chronometron might be so good, it's a must have?

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