Good, bad and ugly

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Good, bad and ugly

Post  System Commander on Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:35 am

Bell of lost souls has a good article on a gaming groups opinion of 6th so far.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/07/40k-editorial-good-bad-and-ugly.html

It confirms my and im sure many peoples concerns especially regarding would allocation and assaults.

We'll have to see how things play out but im really disliking the idea of having to watch my opponent roll armour saves one at a time if a character is in front.. Then making a separate look out roll if it fails... Add feel no oain jn theee and its going to take forever to get through that .. Slllllllloow. Combat as well.

Allowing allies can really amp up the points and get some big armies going.. But how can you ramp up the points and expect to get a game done in a reasonable amount of time.

I really really hope gw watches the chatter and potentially decides to faq some rulwbook hangups. Sure they cant change wound allocation but maybe deciding night in every game is a bit much.. Or switching up the warlord rolls.

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Roland on Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:47 am

I think several of the rules (challenges, prec shots and strikes, complex unit wound allocations) WILL slow things down.

Note that several formerly "complex units" no longer are so. Ork Nobs, if all have the same armor type, now you just roll and work front to back.

Deathwing/GK Termies with all different wargear..... as long as its all on the armor save... just roll and go front to back.

I honestly cant see it getting too complicated until you get to Assault and all the different weapons... but even then I think they were pretty clear in the book. It's just gonna be a learning curve until we figure out the quickest way to roll.

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Deadlytoaster on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:21 am

My only problem is the character in front thing potentially being able to save the unit. Example for eldar i got a fortuned Asurman in front of the unit, by the rules arnt the shots resolved vs him until he dies? (and with rerolls to save and a 2+ armor and 4+ ward save with Eternal warrior? good luck...)

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  System Commander on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:26 am

Yep.. Exactly.. you jist keep rolling until all the shots are done... Its so stupid.

And if i understand correctly.. Once he does fail a save.. Can you look out sir it then ?

The only way around it is to start shooting the sides or back.. But damn.. What a pain in the ass.

But... A cool narrative theme? hey look.. My dude just got shot 50 times.. Not a scratch!

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:31 am

thats what everyone is talking about now Deadly.

Bu i think its going to work itself out. 6th edition looks to be more mobile, and that character can only protect the unit from one angle. and honestly, the characters that can do these sorts of things tend to be heavy hitters, isnt the whole point of IC's that they can "hide" in units and not get picked off? I'm sure going to shoot lascannons, missile launchers, and plasma at units that put their big guns in the front, it only takes a couple 1's and a whole tone of points is gone.

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Deadlytoaster on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:37 am

I think the key will come down to manuverability, if you can make it so other models in the unit are now closer than the character then things should be good.

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:39 am

Quick Clarification: Look out Sir (LoS) moves the allocation of the wound before saves are made. When they have the wording "unsaved wounds" that's because the AP of the shot beats your armour, and it's an unsaved wound you're reallocating.

So lets say my Destroyer Lord and 5 Praetorians get hit by a Krak Missile, two Plasma gun shots, and 3 bolter wounds. Destroyer Lord is closest.

The shooting player says, "Resolve the Plasma first, the bolters second, and the Krak last"
I take a plasma and attempt an LoS roll to put it on a Praetorian. I succeed, a Praetorian dies. The next one, I fail, and the D-Lord takes a wound. I take three bolter wounds all on the D-Lord, fail one, he takes a wound. I don't want to risk rolling a "1" on the Krak and losing my D-Lord, so I attempt an LoS roll to take the last wound on a Praetorian.


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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  System Commander on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:43 am

I think my problem is more with the irritation of having to watch that unit roll out its saves. If you 10 wounds.. Sigh.. One at a time.. the look outs and maybe fnp's.. Just sooooo long.

And then say an example like necrons like mark mentioned. A couple crypteks and lords... Characters everywhere.. Itll take forever for that unit to not only die.. But to resolve shooting.. Ugh.

We'll have to see but initial feeling is yelling sloooooooooow

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Deadlytoaster on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:44 am

You sir need an invuln save and some fortune me thinks Razz

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:46 am

Much like 2nd Edition, once we get used to rolling the dice, it won't be *so* bad.

The slowest part will be assaults with multiple initiative steps, as you can feasibly touch models several times, and positioning at each step will have some impact. It'll be nice to poke this edition with some 1000 point games, then moving up to 1500 points.

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Deadlytoaster on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:51 am

Well thank God for GnG then Razz yes i will be rather interested in seeing how it all plays out.

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  System Commander on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:52 am

I guess im just thinking in terms of grek knight shooting.

I shoot a squad of gk at your necrons warriors with a lord at the front. I do 8 storm bolter and 3 paycannon wounds.. 11 shots now yiu have to resolve one at a time against your 2+ .. Oh.. Yeah he'll fail eventually but rolling one at a time hurts my brain.

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Deadlytoaster on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:57 am

i agree, though i think most people are fairly comfortable rolling dice by now you can pick up 11 and machine gun them out haha (but i agree with you entirely) to me the way i thought it should have worked would have been like now 1 wound allocated per model starting at the front doubling up once everyone has one. saves are taken casualties removed from front based on save so lord and 3 imortals, 8 wounds dealt, lord takes 2 imortals take 6, lord passes all, 2 immortals die, and the ones closest to the front are removed regardless of armament. (saves time on dice if you ask me)

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Just wait, give GW a month and the next white dwarf will Herald in the "GW 40K dice block, with 8 different colours of specially carved dice to make sorting your wound pool simple and intuitive!"

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Roland on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:37 am

only 8 colors?Smile

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Roland on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:40 am

BTW for all the Draigowing guys.....

all Purifier and Paladins are characters. So they can all attempt Look Out sir, and all have precision shots and strikes.

THAT will be annoying....

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:45 pm

Draigo... whatever. I just challenge him with some Mindshackle Scarabs from a Destroyer Lord or 2+/3++ Overlord.

Does Draigo have a power weapon? If so... he gonna die.

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Roland on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:48 pm

draigo has a Str 10 power weapon:)


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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:49 pm

I'll risk those 2+ saves on my D-Lord, assuming he even has to make them.

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Deadlytoaster on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:55 pm

Correction all paladins are characters, purifiers are not. And as far as i can see draigo only has a force sword now so have at him! Unless you know he passes all those 3+ invulns and wounds you once. (do you even have enough attacks to take all 4 wounds off in one go? :s)

Also draigos weapon is only strength 10 vs psychers and daemons if i remember right

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Roland on Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:28 pm

If he's whacking himself in the face, he's hitting a psyker:)

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Planes on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:29 pm

Tee hee hee...

Chariot charge and challenge Draigo, any day of the week. I am so happy I have a Command Barge right now.

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Deadlytoaster on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:01 pm

*Rolls eyes* i will be curious to see how an actual game will play out vs necrons, i predict brutal

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Roland on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:11 pm

I miss the good ole days, when the Dark Angels codex dropped and everyone bitched about how broken they were with their termie troops and cheap rhinos....

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

Post  Planes on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:24 pm

35 points for a transport? I call hax! You could buy three of those for the price of one Ghost Ark, and still have points left over for a Hunter Killer!

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Re: Good, bad and ugly

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