imperial guard

Which list would you rather take?

+++ guard (1750pts) +++
+++ 1750pt Astra Militarum: Codex (2014) Roster (Combined Arms Detachment)) +++

Selections:

Astra Militarum: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ + (215pts)

   * Company Command Squad (215pts)
       * Chimera (65pts)
           Heavy Flamer, 2x Lasgun Arrays, Multi-laser, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
       * Company Commander (25pts)
HoC: The Blade of Conquest (25pts),
       * Officer of the Fleet (20pts)
       * Veteran w/ Medi-pack (15pts)
       * Veteran w/ Meltagun (10pts)
       * Veteran w/ Regimental Standard (15pts)
       * Veteran w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
       
+ Troops + (665pts)
   * Infantry Platoon (330pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p36)
       * Heavy Weapons Squad (90pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * 3x Missile Launcher Team (45pts)
        * Infantry Squad (60pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
            * 7x Guardsman
            * Guardsman w/ Flamer (5pts)
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Sergeant
       * Infantry Squad (60pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * 7x Guardsman
           * Guardsman w/ Grenade Launcher (5pts)
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Sergeant
       * Platoon Command Squad (60pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * 3x Guardsman w/ Lasgun
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Platoon Commander (25pts)
Power Fist (25pts)
       * Special Weapons Squad (60pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * 3x Guard w/ Meltagun (30pts)
           * 3x Guardsman w/ Lasgun

   * Infantry Platoon (335pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p36)
       * Heavy Weapons Squad (75pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * 3x Autocannon Team (30pts)
       * Infantry Squad (60pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * 7x Guardsman
           * Guardsman w/ Flamer (5pts)
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Sergeant
       * Infantry Squad (60pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * 7x Guardsman
           * Guardsman w/ Grenade Launcher (5pts)
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Sergeant
       * Platoon Command Squad (65pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * 3x Guardsman w/ Lasgun
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Platoon Commander (30pts)
Plasma Pistol (15pts), Power Sword (15pts)
       * Special Weapons Squad (75pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * 3x Guard w/ Plasma Gun (45pts)
           * 3x Guardsman w/ Lasgun

+ Fast Attack + (325pts)

   * Armoured Sentinel Squadron (135pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p45)
           Autocannon (5pts)
           Autocannon (5pts)
           Autocannon (5pts)

   * Vendetta Squadron (190pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p48)
           2x Sponson-mounted Heavy Bolters (20pts), 2x Twin-linked Lascannons, Extra Armour, Searchlight, Twin-linked Lascannon

+ Heavy Support + (545pts)

   * Leman Russ Squadron (180pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p46)
       * Battle Tank (180pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p46)
           2x Heavy Bolter (20pts), Battle Cannon, Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers


   * Leman Russ Squadron (195pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p46)
       * Executioner (195pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p47)
           2x Plasma Cannons (30pts), Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon


   * Manticore Battery (170pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p52)
       * Manticore (170pts)
           (Limited Ammunition)
           Heavy Flamer, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, 4x Storm Eagle Rocket


+++ 1750pt Astra Militarum: Codex (2014) Roster (Combined Arms Detachment)) +++

+ HQ + (185pts)

   * Company Command Squad (185pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p30)
       * Chimera (65pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p40)
           Heavy Bolter, 2x Lasgun Arrays, Multi-laser, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
       * Company Commander (15pts)  (Codex: Imperial Guard p0)
Power Sword (15pts), Refractor Field, Warlord (*)
       * Veteran w/ Medi-pack (15pts)
       * Veteran w/ Meltagun (10pts)
       * Veteran w/ Regimental Standard (15pts)
       * Veteran w/ Vox-caster (5pts)

+ Troops + (975pts)

   * Infantry Platoon (485pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p36)
       * Heavy Weapons Squad (90pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * 3x Missile Launcher Team (45pts)
       * Infantry Squad (130pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * Chimera (65pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p40)
               Heavy Bolter, 2x Lasgun Arrays, Multi-laser, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
           * 7x Guardsman
           * Guardsman w/ Meltagun (10pts)
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Sergeant
       * Infantry Squad (130pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * Chimera (65pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p40)
               Heavy Bolter, 2x Lasgun Arrays, Multi-laser, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
           * 7x Guardsman
           * Guardsman w/ Meltagun (10pts)
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Sergeant
       * Platoon Command Squad (135pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * Chimera (65pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p40)
               Heavy Bolter, 2x Lasgun Arrays, Multi-laser, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
           * 2x Guardsman w/ Lasgun
           * Guardsman w/ Meltagun (10pts)
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Platoon Commander (25pts)
Power Fist (25pts)

   * Infantry Platoon (490pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p36)
       * Heavy Weapons Squad (75pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * 3x Autocannon Team (30pts)
       * Infantry Squad (135pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * Chimera (65pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p40)
               Heavy Bolter, 2x Lasgun Arrays, Multi-laser, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
           * 7x Guardsman
           * Guardsman w/ Plasma Gun (15pts)
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Sergeant
       * Infantry Squad (135pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * Chimera (65pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p40)
               Heavy Bolter, 2x Lasgun Arrays, Multi-laser, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
           * 7x Guardsman
           * Guardsman w/ Plasma Gun (15pts)
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Sergeant
       * Platoon Command Squad (145pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p0)
           * Chimera (65pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p40)
               Heavy Bolter, 2x Lasgun Arrays, Multi-laser, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
           * 2x Guardsman w/ Lasgun
           * Guardsman w/ Plasma Gun (15pts)
           * Guardsman w/ Vox-caster (5pts)
           * Platoon Commander (30pts)
Plasma Pistol (15pts), Power Sword (15pts)

+ Fast Attack + (190pts)

   * Vendetta Squadron (190pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p48)
           2x Sponson-mounted Heavy Bolters (20pts), 2x Twin-linked Lascannons, Extra Armour, Searchlight, Twin-linked Lascannon


+ Heavy Support + (375pts)

   * Leman Russ Squadron (180pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p46)
       * Battle Tank (180pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p46)
           2x Heavy Bolter (20pts), Battle Cannon, Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers


   * Leman Russ Squadron (195pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p46)
       * Executioner (195pts)  (Codex: Astra Militarum p47)
           2x Plasma Cannons (30pts), Lascannon (10pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon

Ouch. I shall clean up the wall of text.

I could tell ya what I thought if I could read what was going on    Although from what I can see it looks like the first command squad is WAY too expensive for what is a very fragile unit. If you trim the fat a bit you could almost squeeze in a 2nd command team.

I think i would go with the first list if i had to choose between the two. seems like a more mobile list and mobility wins 7th edition.

The blob squads seem vulnerable to me without a counter punch or some hidden power axes or something to discourage assault.

Editted lists for readability

Command Sqd:Drop the blade, chimera and OotF fleet from teh first and I can copy/pasta. If I was going whole hog, it'd likely be multiple plas/meltas.

Mike, can you elaborate? First list is on foot, second in Chimeras. In terms of numbers the first list has 2 special weapon squads (that I'd likely drop in the Vendetta) but thats it. I'd think the Chimeras would make them more mobile, or should I view those as mobile bunkers?

First list requires me to buy the Chimera, a Manticore, a LR Executioner and a Vendetta, plus 3 plas/melta gunner blister and a Cadian squad.
Second requires trade the Manticore for 6 more Chimera.

I'd likely want to blob up the first list squads.... PF/axes on the sgts? Commisars?

ahhhhh much easier to read

I was mostly looking at the sentinals and numbers of units when i mentioned speed. above. with it cleaned up and readable, i like your second list much more. The chimeras getting objective secured just makes them a better choice. whether you use them as bunkers or race for objectives will be determined by your opponents strategy, but you have the option.

orders are so good in the new dex that i would consider taking a second command squad, even if they are naked with no upgrades and hiding in the bushes.

the thought occurs to me that with the chimeras scoring, i'de be tempted to line the guardsmen up in front of it to give it a cover save and bubble wrap from MC charges instead of putting them inside it to protect them =)

re: blobs.  tough to do unless you commit. need some power axes on the sarges and commisars/ primaris pyskers to keep them from running away.  

Strong if you can commit the points,

So a couple of points I'd bring up about both lists.

First heavy weapon squads are a tough sell these days. They are only bs3 and suffer ID from all the str 6/7 spam going around these days. Add in a healthy dose of ignore cover and they start to become hard to justify.

Regular Leman Russ tanks with the Battle cannon are a trap. Since the cannon is and ordnance weapon it makes the rest of the weapons snap fire. Add in the fact that all the other variants got cheaper leaves it in somewhat of an awkward position at the moment.

Special weapon squads are neat, but really suffer from BS3. Veterans tend to be a way better choice unless you are adamant about them riding in the vendetta (really i'd put the platoon command squad with 2-4x flamers in it). Speaking of Vendetta the sponsons are not worth it unless you've built the model. Since it can't split fire you'll almost never have the appropriate line of sight to use them.

Make sure if you are taking an executioner to have a way to twin-link it. Otherwise I think the math comes out to losing .25 of a hull point per turn just in overheats (especially since the main cannon can overheat now).

IMO manticores got the shaft this edition. Between being unable to direct fire (to reduce scatter by 3 when it comes up) and being unable to destroy vehicles unless they are opened topped they are a lot less valuable now. If you are just trying to kill infantry I'd spend the same points on as many wyverns as would fit (wyverns are amazing at mowing down a lot of the "filler" troop choices this days).

I would agree with Mike that if you are going to blob guardsmen you need to make sure they don't run and have enough melee threat to at least make your opponent think. That generally means a commissar or priest (priests are generally considered better because of fearless and having IC status for a 2+LoS!) and power axes on the sergeants.