On Painting Scores...... (Wall of Text incoming)

This is come up several times in discussions with many people.....

"I'm not concerned with my paint score, Paz/Ben/Michaelangelo is entering....."

I haz a sad.

I feel this is wrong-headed for several reasons

1) Paz/Ben DO NOT always win. They win a lot. They should, they are good.
2) If you are tired of seeing the same people win, DON'T VOTE FOR THEM in best painted.
3) Winning "Best Painted" isn't the real goal here.

A word on Paint scores: My tournaments use the GW paint score method. Your score is a max of 40. There are actually 46 points avaliable.

The upper end (top 5 or so) is usually between a 28-32, most people finish with between 20-25 points, with a few having a 0 or 15-19. The guys who win Best Overall typically have a 25-28 in Painting. I've had tournament where I felt the scoring was a little low, but EVERYONE was low. I've had ones where I felt they were a little high, but EVERYONE was high...

To go after the points individually:
1) Being mad at Paz for winning best painted is like being mad at Sidney Crosby for being a better hockey player. Goes without saying.
2) Players pick up "bonus points for best painted" +1 for the first, +2 for the second, +3 for the third. If your army is at a 28, and 3 people vote best painted for you, you actually have a 34. If everyone is tired of seeing the same people win, VOTE for someone else. Or learn some new techniques and boost your score. (Full Disclosure: I haven't voted Ben or Paz 1st in the last three tourneys I've played. Not because I don't think they are good, but because everyone KNOWS they good, and I'm more excited to see someone's stuff I haven't seen yet.)
3) Your goal isn't REALLY to win best painted. It's to score well enough to get your overall up so you have a chance at that. My tournaments are 50% Battle points (usually out of 60), 25% painting (your score out of 40, scaled to 30), 25% sportsmanship (out of 30). The upper end of BP will have between 45-54, Sportsmanship 27-30, Paint 23-28. Even if you are the best, friendliest player, giving up 10-15 points at painting will cost you.

To go into a bit of depth with the scoresheet and exactly how easy it is to score between a 20-25, lets go thru it point by point:

10 points if the bulk of the army is mostly painted (but with large unfinished area); 15 is the bulk of the army is FULLY painted (to a three-color standard)

This is the important part. If you don't have one of those two checked (say half your army is just primed or unpainted), you aren't gettting any more points. Getting 3 colors on is easier than you think.
Are you painting Orks? Spray them black, paint the skin green and paint anything metal Boltgun. BOOM goes the dynamite.
Crimson Fists? Spray em with a deep blue, then boltgun and red. BOOM
Tyranids? Spray em bone, black carapace, red claws. BOOM
Crons? Plate mail or silver, gold and green accents. BOOM

I'm using standard-ish color schemes here, but it is THAT easy. Lets assume you got the bulk of the army to a 3 color min (that last tactical squad was a BITCH to finish when you're hungover, amirite?) 15 points.

Painting is uniform. You don't have a half Dark Angel/half ultramarine force. +1 Point (16)

Clean Basecoat Colors. You were reasonably neat. +1 point (17)

Details are painted such as eyes, buckles, jewelry, etc. Ok you have some time while you're watching TV... (+1; 18)

Details are painted well (clean, have highlights) Screw this, Games of Thrones is on.....(+0, 18)

DISCERNABLE HIGHLIGHTS/SHADING: Drybrushing, lining, shading, inking, etc. (not required to be clean) hit the whole model with Devlan Mud/Agrax Earthshade/"Ben-in-a-can" (+1, 19)

LAYERS OF HIGHLIGHTS: More than one layer of highlight which may include shading, highlights over inking, blending, etc. You can either add a single layer of highlights with the original predominate color, or just skip it. Let's say you skip it. (+0, 19)

At this point you have a 19/35.

Basing
BASED/DETAILED: Bases have basing materials (flock/sand/tiles) or details painted on them. You based them with some sand from Home Depot.... or your backyard, and painted it Brown (+1, 20)
EXTRA BASING: The bases have multiple basing materials (rocks/grass), extra details painted on them (cracks in tiles), or if extra basing is inappropriate, basing is done very well (ie. rolling desert dunes). You grabbed a pack of grass tufts from the den, and glued one to each base. (+1, 21)
HIGHLIGHTS: Bases have highlighting (shading/drybrushing). You took three seconds to drybush the base with Bleached Bone. (+1, 22)
SPECIAL DETAILS: There are extra details on the larger bases
(helmets, skulls, animals, building rubble, etc.) um, no.

You're up to 22/40. (Keep in mind, scoring is CAPPED @ 40 points......)

Conversions
MINIMAL: The army has some elementary conversions (head and weapon
swaps, arm rotations) or a couple interesting swaps. How hard is a head/weapon swap per unit? (+1, 23)

We'll stop there...... That gets you to a 23. YOU HAVEN'T DONE ANY FINE DETAILING OR HIGHLIGHTING, and YOU GOT A FREAKIN 23!!!

A simple highlight on the predominate color nets you +2 points. Past this starts to require some real time and effort....

highlighting details nets you +2, making sure ALL the highlights are neat and clean; and a second highlight each give you +2. Thats a 31 total, free hand a few details (cuz you're Paz), or go nuts on a base for +2 each. Major conversions can net you up to 3 more points.

I've found once you are past the 3 main colors (and the 3rd color tend to be the one that really make the model start to come together), the other colors are minimal. A spash of tanned flesh on the sgt's head. Some black on the bolter casing, some bone and red on the purity seals, etc.

I paint slower than Christmas, but I've found if I can squeeze in an hour a night, i can do roughly a 200pt unit or so a week. I'm pushing it right now (about 300/week) to get my Dark Angels done. Once that initial 1500-2000 points is done, its really easy to add a unit a week to get stuff so you can switch out.

To pick on an individual, Ben maintains he is "nothing special" as a painter. To an extent he is correct, watch him paint. He has no special techniques or real tricks. Basecoat, wash, and a single fine edge highlight, if that. It looks like a million bucks because A) Everything is always painted, he won't play with an unfinished model and B) everything is clean and neat. I don't think he makes a particular effort to do this, it just comes natural. If my skillset with painting is a 4 or 5, Ben is me simply dialed up to 11. Or I'm him on mute:)

I think we have a LOT of "unsung" painters out there who kind of fly under the radar sometimes. Alex and his Killa Koke Kans. Dana's Space Wolves. There are a LOT more. I don't think I've met anyone here who wasn't willing to give advice or tell you how they painted something. 9 times out of 10 it simpler than I ever thought it'd be.

I'm NOT saying "Don't play unpainted models," I'm saying, Don't be intimidated and think you can't paint a decent looking army, or that you don't have enough time. If you can block away an hour a day for 8 weeks or so, you can get that army done. Because lets face it, it's a lot more fun to play with 2 fully painted armies on a finished board with finished terrain.

/END RANT

A lot of the tricks I use to get best painted are easy to learn, I'm always down for paint nights, life permitting. I've been painting miniatures for over 10 years, and training in art for longer. And that's learning on my own, and teaching myself.
The truth is, I spend as much time on a fig as most guys do, I've just become very efficient at rushing! If you look closely, I'm getting nowhere near the detail of amazing artists like Scott!
Learning to batch paint, and basic rules of miniature painting can really shoot forward your style.
Ian only really starting painting in the last 2 years or so, and he's already better than I was after 4.
It's not super easy, but there are tricks! here are some huge basics I use to speed paint:

-Don't use pure paint: Wash those guys down. Play around with consistency, some paints are more translucent,some more opaque. I generally use 2/3s paint to 1/3 water, but it depends, I'll use half and half for foundation.

-basing: get a cork. Rip it up, into shreds. Now u have super realistic rocks! Super glue those on.
Get some pva (white) glue. Mix it half and half with water, apply to dry base. Grab a bag of fine sand, dip base. Voila! Paint it a dark color, then dry brush with 3-4 lighter layers!
Pick up a pack of bushes from the den, glue em on.
That's literally as fancy as I generally will go. Sometimes I'll throw more bits on a hero base, but then I'll follow the same steps.

-painting, work in a 4 layer step: learn this simple repetition and all your figs will look crazy cool.
Base: paint on the basic color u want for that section of your model. Don't worry if it doesn't look perfect, it'll get darker! Paint all the sections of your fig the base colors. It's gonna look dumb, but bare with me!
Next, wash the model in a... Wash. Whatever color you like, but maybe Add black wash to lighter ones.
Get it in all the creases and floods, anywhere shadows might appear on the model. I like to water down my washes a bit, so they are not too strong.
Next, go back to your base colors! Highlight again, any raised areas or edges.
Add a lighter, but slightly more vibrant color to your base, a 1/1 mix.
If you're feeling adenturous, add more light color, for a final layer, just spots where you can imagine light glinting off of, or any strong corners!
Bam, done. Simple as that.

-color theory: this is a hard one. Painting guides can help you, or grab a color wheel from your local art store. Basic rule I can tell u that u need to follow tho:
Your shadows should have more grey in them. Shadows are usually desaturated, meaning closer to brown or grey, less vibrant. Your highlights are the opposite, more vibrant! The big mistake most ppl make tho, is not tying your highlights and shadows to your base color. You cannot highlight dark red with pure bright red, it'll look wrong. Your base of dark red has brown in it, so any shadows and highlights have to have a little of that in it!
You can also use multiple colors. I like to start with a base of greyish-purple/pink for skin, then work my way up to a light beige. Each layer has a little of the last color in it, but tr change in hue adds realism!

I could go on and on forever, but if anyone wants to go for the top, and feels they can't compete with the usual winners, hit me up for tips!

My wife got me the old "How to Paint citidel Mini's" book last year. More for general reference than anything. It was worth it for the paint mixing section alone. I can't remember the specifics, but it was like you said. You don't add white for a lighter tone and black for darker tone, for red you add a dark or light green? I'd have to crack it open to see exactly.

Your 4 step process is what I mean. Most people look at your work and its actually a simple process that you;ve been nailing down pat for 10 years.

Question in general. Do you use a pallette or right outta the pot? I recently switched to the Army Painter paints and you kinda HAVE to use a pallette.

Never ever paint out of a pot. It means you're using the bar color, and no mixing.
I paint off a wetpallete. It's a pretty huge one, about 6x8 inches.
You can pick a small one up from the den (p3 pairs, silly ripoff tho) or a big one with professional acrylic palette paper from art placement.
For those of you who don't know, a wet palette is a container with a sponge, soaked in water, and some type of specialty paper over top. It has a lid, meaning your paints stay wet waaay longer, so u can keep using a particular mix for days.
I would suggest the palette paper from art placement if you can help it. Some people use parchment but I find it too weak for mixing paint. For $10 bucks you get 30 sheets of acrylic paper, which you soak in hot water first, before using. Then you can literally wash it off like a cloth and reuse it!

You don't need to use a wetpallete tho. A simple flat clean surface like a container lid is always just as good, if you are working in small amounts. I only started using a wetpallete a few years ago.

Huge rule to help with getting used to colors tho: never ever use a base color without mixing it with something else. Trust me, it'll always look better if you find the right shade first.

So it's finals time, and I'm in that weird zombie-state right now.

Beau is correct, I don't use any advanced techniques, my repertoire consists entirely of basic methods. Heck, I don't even prime most of my stuff! My basecoats usually are my primer, although that has been the case mainly because the base happens to be white anyways.

Also, it's not that I DON'T play with unpainted models, rather I CAN'T. I paint my figs in subassemblies, so I'd be playing with a set of legs on a base most of the time if using unfinished figs

Here's Ben's DW 101:

-Spray errrrything white. (In my case, primer and basecoat in one!)
-Next I paint anything that needs to be black. (tubes, grills, gun cases)
-Then I do the metallic bits in mythril silver.
-After those are done, and while my silver is still open, I drybrush the black parts with mythril for a simple worn metal look.
-Gold details that need to be painted gold get painted gold with gold paint so that they look gold.
-HEAVY wash over EVERYTHING with a brown wash, currently gryphonne sepia (which will run out soon, this is like the 7th or 8th pot I've gone through since it was released and discontinued)
** Note, I don't "paint" washes onto my stuff usually, unless it calls for it. Rather I load my old nasty brush up with it and pretty much slop it on, and move it around enough to get where I want it to go. If you carefully paint it on, it tends to dry up before doing what you want it to, and not very much pigment gets laid down. Also gravity can be your friend sometimes for shading and getting in the nooks and crannies.
-Wait.
-Check to see if wash is all dried, get brown fingers and potentially awkward conversation later on, continue waiting.
-Once wash is totally dry, paint the raised parts of the armor in bone. Leave the seams and more recessed areas alone.
-Use some thinned down white to do the middle parts of armored panels, and edge highlighting. Thinning it lets it blend nicely into the bone. Getting just the right consistency is the tough part. I use a cheapo eardropper to make this easier.
-Do a quick pass on the raised gold bits with more gold, this will brighten up the edges and look purdy.

Congratulations, you have painted up a half decent looking white figure, and some people say white is really hard to do!

Green armor panels use the exact same idea as the white ones, only green paints instead.

For my bases, I use a ruler and my knife to score the paneling in, then my dremel on slow to make the indented rivets. Paint base silver, wash with brown. Instant basing points.

Here's an example to help:


I'm a big proponent of playing with two fully painted armies, it just makes the game so much COOLER, and you can take fun pictures like this:
He didn't make it.

I feel people's goal should be to get as much of that soft-score as they can. It's one of the games where your only opponent is yourself. Kick that guy in the nuts. Put the effort in, even if you're Aidan, you'll get 10/20 if you're army's fully painted to a 3 colour standard.

Thanks guys!

For reference, my Ultramarine method:

Spray prime with Army Painter Ultramarine Blue (betcha didn't see that one coming), I'd just as soon use Krylon Fusion, but I haven't found a match for their blue. Black/white are good tho.

Basecoat in flat colors. I used to used Foundation Paints exclusively, but have switched to AP because they are cheaper and match the spray primer (so touch ups match)

Splash on a wash, just like Ben described below. I use AP Strong or Dark Inks rather than the Quickshade dip, because it's as cheap, less messy, and I'm less likely to crush a base with my pliers or launch a $30 miniacross the room.

It it with a coat of matte varnish once dry.

Base with your std basing sand. Paint Brown, drybrush bone. Add a swamp tuft.

Stuff I should do but don't: I paint right out of the pot. Because I'm lazy. Since i've switched to AP and their dropper bottles I really have a lousy excuse.

I don't do any highlights, but it's easy enough to go back and add a edge highlight, or layer on top of my original coat and then highlight. I say "easy" in the theory sense. I'm actually in fear of screwing up majority.

Ben: soft tone from AP is supposed to be a match for Sepia.

Mark: time payoff. First 20 hrs. Nets 16 points. Next 20 nets 8. Next 20 nets 4, then 2, then 1. So it's diminishing returns. The question is when it's not worth it to you to do more.

At the end of the day, I think anyone here with a finished army will admit that it takes time. Lots of time. But once you've painte a full 1750-2000 pts, you realize the benefits. That army lasts forever. Adding units is a breeze, and playing any games, not just tournies, with a full painted army is something else.
It's worth the work.

Paz wrote:At the end of the day, I think anyone here with a finished army will admit that it takes time. Lots of time. But once you've painte a full 1750-2000 pts, you realize the benefits. That army lasts forever. Adding units is a breeze, and playing any games, not just tournies, with a full painted army is something else.
It's worth the work.

Totally agree, having over 2k painted of 'crons and Orks and getting there with Chaos (CSM & Daemons), it's much more fun to bring painted to the table than non.

Totally agree. I think the first 1500-2000 points is the hardest. But once that's done, it's easy.

I think 6th helps with that. Get 1st army done. Add some allies. Build them up. They become the new army.

I suppose what I'm getting at, is I'd rather see an entire army painted to a 3 color std, rather than 3/4 bare plastic with the other quarter to a high std. But that's my $.02.

I blame Paz , it is all his fault !!!

I have a hard time with paint because I have so many projects on the go. My
chaos forge is ever churning. The paint shop is understaffed lol.

I'm just trying to mull over in my head where my basic 'Cron pallet would sit in all this, assuming I ever got around to truly finishing more than one dude in it.

Prime black.
Spray base Leadbeltcher.
Assemble.
Dry brush gold on upper angles for yellow/orange sun scotching the land.
White on pauldrons/face plate/other small details.
Gloss Red on exposed inner bits and select edging.

Add chunk of cork board to base.
Prime black, spray Leadbeltcher.
Wash with a thin bright green to get in all the cracks.

Roland wrote:
2) If you are tired of seeing the same people win, DON'T VOTE FOR THEM in best painted.

2) Players pick up "bonus points for best painted" +1 for the first, +2 for the second, +3 for the third. If your army is at a 28, and 3 people vote best painted for you, you actually have a 34. If everyone is tired of seeing the same people win, VOTE for someone else. Or learn some new techniques and boost your score. (Full Disclosure: I haven't voted Ben or Paz 1st in the last three tourneys I've played. Not because I don't think they are good, but because everyone KNOWS they good, and I'm more excited to see someone's stuff I haven't seen yet.)

This is the worst thing I've seen. If you feel someone has achieved the best painted army you vote for it. Choosing to pass points on to someone who has a lesser quality army because your sick of someone winning all the time is horrendous.

You can't rob people of their due because you think they have won enough. That's super shitty.

Scott: You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion.

I am merely pointing out that if people want to see someone else win, they have the power to do so. I`d prefer they do so by improving their skills, but the fact is, `Best Painted`is just that, one person`s opinion of the best painted army. They also get to define what `best` means as well.

regardless of if I am at a 50 or 100 person tourney or one of our 12 man shindigs I`m voting for the army and paintjob that excites me the most, regardless of if it isn`t as good on a `technical` level. I think most post have made it clear I have a lot of respect for Paz and Ben`s talent (they are both extremely humble and open about how they acheive what they do, I`ve personally learned a lot from both of them.)

That said I`ve seen Ben`s Deathwing and Paz`s daemons enough when Dana finally brought out his Space Wolves, or Alex busted out his Kans, or Ryan and his Lamenters, or..... It might score lower by the rubric, but I`m more excited to see those, because hey, they look awesome and they put just as much time and effort into them.

I didn`t say I exclude either from the votes completely. If I had a vote at the last team tourney I ran, Paz`s Raven Guard would have gotten it. At the last ToonCon I had them second and third.

The whole point of this post is basically to tell the guys who ARE saying they want someone else to win ``do better.`` As I went thru up above, you can go thru the GW scoring point by point and get a decent score with very little effort. If someone brings an awesome paint job and loses 30-29, I can understand them asking ``why not me,`` The guy who got a 0 because he didn`t do more than prime his army black.... not so much.

I know you have a different take on this, you have obviously put a level of time and effort I personally couldn`t. If you were offended, sorry.

Anyone is free to pick any army they choose to award points to. If anybody looked at an army and thought "Wow, great stuff I think I'll give my points to... nah, I'm sick of that dude winning. I'll vote for someone else." then it's cheating. Telling people they are free to develop any new criteria they prefer to award the best painted army to help crown a new winner is just plain wrong. I've seen this tons while running events even big ones like a GT I helped judge. Any time the prize for being the best goes to someone other than the best it's criminal. It's one thing to vote for an exciting army or one that isn't as technically well painted like you say but I have seen a lot of people simply pick the person they want and justify it with reason xyz and it gets me every time. I had it out on another board with a dude just the other week who refused to vote for certain painters in a comp because he thought they were only in it for the prizes. Results should be the only thing that matters.

You made a lot of great points in your OP about how the GW painting score sheet works. What I always liked about it back in the day when I went to tourney's was that you could figure out give or take what you'd score beforehand. It's still basically the same system. Nobody should be shocked by their painting scores when they see them.

And then you went further and laid out some GREAT pointers about how to improve army painting scores. Well done, this board needs more posts like this thread you started. I mean, I think you're wicked off base about reminding everyone they have the power to take the crown and give it to whomever they want but other than that I'd dish out a happy emoticon for the post. 'cept I won't 'cause that shit is gay.

Even better is that Paz and Ben take a little bit of time and add to the positive aspects of the thread by sharing their techniques and I loved Ben's little bit about the motivation for playing painted 40k. Well done again!

For the people that want to improve their painting I think they should start threads in this section and let everyone know they want to get better and that it's open season on giving hints and tips on how to improve. Don't just say "I want to get better" and then justify crappy paintwork in the face of critique though, you gotta mean it when you say you want to get better and you need to be ready to listen to some things you might not want to hear about your work. Otherwise you're really just wasting people's time.

And for the love of Jeebus use some self critique as well. There was a thread on here not that long ago where people were talking about painting with toothpicks FFS.

-edited- And don't make me click on links to see your pictures anymore Horseman! Put them in the thread!

For the record, I think I achieved some respectable results with the self-imposed limitations I was working with at the time. I have since learned that a round bodied tooth pick with a chamfered head works much better than your run of the mill square form tooth pick! Come to think of it, I should probably re-stock, I have a bad habit of putting those mint flavored ones in my mouth.

It would be nice to get some feedback on the above mentioned slap-and-dash Cron pallet, though.

Planes: it's best, when learning about painting, to not oversimplify all the time.
By Spraying your base and model with lead belcher and then drybrushing, you're jumping past a lot of steps to achieve a believable result. If you want gold, prime black, then drybrushing with a mix of tin-bitz and bronze. Then wash and work up the highlights in brighter successive layers f gold and shining gold. I like to put a bit of Mithril silver mixed with gold as final highlight, helps focus the object.
I would generally suggest painting your bases a different color than your fig. Contrast helps bring out the details.

Planes wrote:It would be nice to get some feedback on the above mentioned slap-and-dash Cron pallet, though.

Being as objective as possible, rating yourself on a scale of 1 to 10 if you like, where would you rate your current painting results. With a 1 being poor and 10 being Golden Demon winning level. You don't have to answer but I think everyone should try to be as specific and honest about where they are so they can start planning a road map to where they want to be.

I'd rate myself a 6, striving for a 7. Baby steps Scott :-)

In the last couple months, I went from terrified of painting cloth and cloaks to excited and getting great results. It's all about listening and learning.

Scott: I think we're actually trying to encourage the same thing. I was trying to be sarcastic with the lead in ("if you don't want them to win, why do you keep voting for them?") Looks like my writing is about as good as my painting:)
I def agree with you on critiquing and being open. My two big question when I'm doing anything related to paint are what am I doing right and what am I doing wrong?

Hmmm self assessment: I dunno, a 3?

Stuff I know I need to work on:
neatness,
thinning my paints (these two should help each other, no?)
Model prep (mold lines, washing to remove residue)
Highlighting: I have a lot of difficulty with this, mainly due to some severe colorblindness. Not sure where to put the paint, and can't see what ive done at times.
Goals: simply to go from a decent gaming standard to a decent tournament standard. I would think working on the above would do that.

I like what you've got there Roland, a good clear plan. I don't have a reference to what your current standard is but should be no problem to get you where you wanna be. Good luck to everyone shooting for the moon! I'm going to do a step by step on an RnF'er. I've always wanted to do one because I think it might really help me personally to see where I need to get to work and improve if I document exactly what I am doing the whole way. If anybody has any questions, crits, or whatevs it might not be a bad spot to check out.

I do think some people really need to decide if they are going to take the red pill or the blue pill when it comes to painting. Vince Lombardi said "If you wanna be great you have to get brilliant at the basics". Or something like that. Lombardi is the man.