comparing biker lists

so looking at the ravenwing, i wanted to see what my biker army would cost as a RW force. here's what my core of models consists of:

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HQ (6#, 535 pts)
Space Marine Captain on Bike, 180 pts (Artificer Armour; Bolt Pistol; Relic Blade)
Command Squad, 355 pts
1 Apothecary
1 Company Champion (Combat Shield; Storm Shield; Bolt Pistol; Power Sword)
3 Veteran (Storm Shield; Lightning Claw; Meltagun)

Troops (18#, 630 pts)
4 Space Marine Bike Squad, 210 pts (Plasma gun x2)
+1 Attack Bike (Heavy Bolter)
+1 Sergeant
4 Space Marine Bike Squad, 210 pts (Melta gun x2)
+1 Attack Bike (Multi-melta)
+1 Sergeant
4 Space Marine Bike Squad, 210 pts (Melta gun x2)
+1 Attack Bike (Multi-melta)
+1 Sergeant

Composition Report:
HQ: 1 (1 - 2)
Troops: 3 (2 - 6)
Total Cost: 1165 points

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now here's what a RW would be, using mostly the same models:

HQ (6#, 370 pts)
1 Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing, 200 pts
Ravenwing Command Squad, 170 pts
+1 Ravenwing Champion (+5 pts)
+1 Apothecary (+30pts)
+1 Ravenwing Company Banner (+15pts)
Troops (18#, 627 pts)
Ravenwing Attack Squadron, 209 pts
4 Bike Squad (Plasma gun x2)
+1 Ravenwing Sergeant
+1 Attack Bike (Heavy Bolter)
Ravenwing Attack Squadron, 209 pts
4 Bike Squad (Meltagun x2)
+1 Ravenwing Sergeant
+1 Attack Bike (Multi-melta)
Ravenwing Attack Squadron, 209 pts
4 Bike Squad (Meltagun x2)
+1 Ravenwing Sergeant
+1 Attack Bike (Multi-melta)

Composition Report:
HQ: 1 (1 - 2)
Troops: 3 (2 - 6)
Total Roster Cost: 997

the RW army comes in quite a bit cheaper, albeit its missing some of the expensive wargear the vanilla comm squad has. but in exchange, everything has hit & run, and scouts; and the comm squad has skilled rider so it autopasses dangerous terrain, and the flag makes all RW within 12" auto pass their Ld check in order to activate Hit & Run. and while they have ATSKNF, they also have grim resolve, so they cant choose to fail a morale check and fall back. but in exchange they get to be stubborn so ld checks are always at 8, or 9 if you buy vet sgt upgrades.

looking at the price differences, the bikes 'definitely' got better pricing in this codex.if you max out your RW squad, you can buy a LS, and now its only 50 instead of 100 (mainly cause now you buy a stock speeder and choose its weapon upgrades instead of being stuck with an Aslt Cann tornado variant). the base cost of the squads also dropped alot, going from 120 to 80 (40pt drop). not the cheapo 20pt per biker in the csm book, but for 2pts more per model over the vanilla, you get some nice extras, such as the homer, H&R, Scout, and Stubborn.

and unlike the vanilla, you dont need 9 bikes and an attack bike to combat squad. if you have 5 bikers + the sgt, you can com squad them into 2 units of 3 each. and the attack bike and speeder, while bought with the squad, act as independent units once deployed. so thats cool if you wanna maximize your FOC slots by having 3 flyers, and still have 6 speeders, 6 attack bikes, and 36 bikers zipping around the board in addition to the comm squads of 3 each for every HQ choice on a bike that you took. or maximize your speeders if your not interested in flyers, and take them in squads of 5 speeders each. that's pretty cool too, cause then you have up to 21 speeders on the board.

Realisticly @ 2000 pts.

Sammael
Inter. Chaplain on bike
RW command squad. (All options)
4x RW squads (full)
1x RW from DV.

You got 35 bikes (6 are multipoint) and 4 speeders. 18 total units.

So is a bike squad with an attack bike that combat squads able to capture 3 objectives?

.....you know, i havent even thought of that. has anyone else seen if this is the case? with how ravenwing combat squads' written, it could be possible when sammael or azrael is taken.

fairly certain that all the pieces would be considered scoring.

except da speeder.

That is some pretty good objective grabbing.

Also, do you have the option of squad'ing the attack bike with the 5 guys to protect it?

Nope. all you get is target saturation and maybe a cover save to protect it.

canadin wrote:That is some pretty good objective grabbing.

Also, do you have the option of squad'ing the attack bike with the 5 guys to protect it?

The Attack Bike is treated as a separate unit after it's purchased. Still cool though. That single MM attack bike can do a lot of things for not very many points.

Might be good to keep em in reserve. They have scout, so that confers Outflank? (I HATE the special rule setup). Zip on, blast something, hope you don't get shot.

Looking at SAMs speeder, and having ordered a new bf tray, I came up with this list that would fit in the tray, which I could add to with my existing dudes.

Sammael in speeder. It's bs 5 fa 14 sa 14 ra 10 hp 2 and gains a 4+invulnerable from SAMs dark halo. 200pts.

Rw squadron, +2 bikers, 2 meltaguns, mm attack bike, 209pts
Rw squadron, +2 bikers 2 plasma guns hvy bolter attack bike, 209pts

2 rw support squadrons, single typhoon speeder each. 150pts

Rw comm squad, rw banner, grenade launcher, apothecary, champion, 170pts

Interrogator chaplain, bike, mace of redemption, 160pts

Comes to 1098pts as a core to build on, all in one tray as well.

The only bit I can't figure out is you have SAMs stat lines when on a jet bike, which makes him pretty good given he has eternal warrior. But do you ignore everything and just treat him as a speeder? Or is it a speeder until he gets into melee to duel?

For those wondering what a mace of redemption is, it's one of those unique relic weapons that are one per army, and it offers str +3 ap 3 melee, concussive, blind, bane of the traitor (becomes ap 2 vs codex chaos marines) making the chappy hit at str 7 ap 3/2

If he's in his speeder, he's a 14/14/10 speeder with 4+. I wouldn't advise getting close enough for someone to charge, as they'll be hitting on 3's and attacking your rear. Jetbike is way to go. Although with the speeder, he's pretty much guaranteed to hit with all his shots (1/36th chance of a miss per shot. If he fires every turn, you will miss about once a game....)

It woulda been sweet if they made his speed a chariot, but hey.

Ya, true. But still, an av 14 speeder with those gun choice can mess you up if you underestimate it. As long as I never let you see his rear armour, your shooting a land raider with a 50/50 chance of ignoring any damage you cause. I think I might play test a list going both ways and see if he's more fun one way or the other. If I stay on the jet bike, I could always take a second comm squad to follow him around.

Has anyone else thought it weird that giving the squad an apothecary is 30pts but a champion is only 5? I know FNP can change the survivability a lot, but I wouldn't of thought it worth 30pts for a 3 man squad that can't buy more dudes. And paying only 5 pts for boosted stats and a better melee weapon seems a little under costed. I probably would've made it 20 for an apothecary, 15 for the champion.

dusktiger wrote:... As long as I never let you see his rear armour...

What happens with drop-podding space marines; dropped IG of any flavor; dropped necrons; outflankers of any variety? That is the problem I am seeing people have with speeder version. Since the guns are short range enough that he has to move forward to engage there is an empty space behind him perfect to drop/outflank into and get that wonderful av10. I am not saying it will happen every game, but I imagine it will happen often enough to be irritating.

200 points for two average guns and the loss of ability to join units. Jetbike, yes, speeder... I don't think so.

The big issue i have with sams speeder variant is that its only 2 hull points. You can be the best at hiding yiur rear aromor all you want but all he needs is 2 glances and you're boned.
Ill stick with the jetbike option...its the best survivability. Oh, and mounted plasma cannon...

I agree with Mathew. I just cant see fielding a 2hp lord when i can have a dude on a jetbike /w a plasma cannon that could also charge into combat and lay some beats.

funny thing about Samael is that he fits into a heavy support shooting army just as well as he does in ravenwing. i could see fielding him with some AV 13/14 tanks and blasting away. have some min sized bike squads in reserve for late game scoring.