Entropic Strike vs FNP

So... if I score an unsaved wound against a target with FNP with a Voidblade, does that dude no longer have his armour save for the rest of the game?

My gut reaction would be, no more armour save.

why is this in doubt?

Because some players think of FNP as an additional armor save, not as ignoring a wound.

I think the question is dude fails his armour save, but makes FNP. Is his armor save gone. I think yes, absolutely.

Since he no longer has armour save, is FNP voided? (like a PW attack?) I'd think yes as well.

How is it considered a unsaved wound if you make FNP though? It's all in the wording right?. Failed "armour save" or "unsaved wound".

FNP is not an armour save, so should for sure not get voided.

I think dude would still get FNP, but no longer his regular save.

Lore Weaver wrote:I think dude would still get FNP, but no longer his regular save.

Is it worded unsaved wound or failed armour save?

Unsaved wound.

Isn't that the same trigger that fires a FNP save?

But then it becomes a saved wound though. Doesn't it? Sorry if I'm playing devils advocate, but I think it's a rule as written, guy keeps armour save. My opinion.

Entropic Strike

Any model that suffers one or more unsaved Wounds from a weapon or model with this special rule immediately loses its armour save for the remainder of the battle (effectively altering its armour save to '-'). For each hit a vehicle suffers from a weapon or model with this special rule, roll a D6. For each result of 4+, it immediately loses 1 point of Armour Value from all facings. If a vehicle is reduced to Armour 0 on any facing, it is immediately wrecked.

Changed my mind after reading the FNP USR. FNP happens 'if' you suffer a unsaved wound. If you make the 4+ save you ignore the 'injury' not the unsaved wound. You should lose your armour save and keep FNP.

Devil's devil's advocate: But FNP isn't allowed for any wound that disallows an armor save

"or any other wound against which no armour save can ever be taken."

In Bob the Blood Angels case, he has lost his armour save, and hence cannot take ANY armour saves. So he can FNP angainst none of them.

Maybe we should just call JJ, I'm sure he's got it sorted out.

"Bloody hell Ward, what did you do now?!"

That refers to special rules for weapons, ie)power weapon, power fist, lighting claw, or anything else, for that matter, that doesn't allow an armour save. Entropic strike alters the armour save to "-". Therefore, 'no saving throw', not 'no saving throw allowed'.

FNP is used for an unsaved wound, not an usaved armour save.

I agree with Ryan.

Here's how I'd state it. Just 'cause the dude's nekkid, doesn't mean he doesn't get his FNP.

ok, FNP can only be taken on an unsaved wound. Since he would have no armour save, it's definately an unsaved wound.

I can see it from both sides. I suppose in rereading the key phrase is "against which no armour save can EVER be taken." Emphasis mine. As a armour save would normally be taken, poof FNP.

The rule does reference wounds from other sources (specifically saying you can't use it for wounds caused by Perils or dangerous terrain)

I smell FAQ.

agreed.

Attack sequence
Hit
Successful wound roll
Roll to save
Fail to save.
Unsaved wound?
Trigger FNP. -roll to ignore the injury
Trigger Entropic -Armor save changed to -

next combat

Hit
Wound
you have no armor, so no roll is made
Unsaved wound
Trigger FNP.

Just because armor has been reduced to - does not infer any special properties on the attacking strike that would negate FPN. FNP's rules specifically refer to special properties of the strike, not the current status of the model with the FNP special rule.

Rhaevyn's post lays it all out the way i thought it happening.