Imperial Armour League?

Just figured i'd feel out the waters more broadly here and ask on the forums what you guys think of a new League that allows, or focuses on, Imperial Armour rules in their entirety. This would mean any individual units that were made in their books, or entire army lists, as is the case in IA Vol 9 & 10 where they post a Siege Assault Vanguard army codex, and the Tyrant's legion codex. (yes, codex; they list most of the units, but anything that wasn't altered in the space marine codex but showed in the new codex's, they just referenced the page number to save pages)

i've already asked a few people personally, and there is interest amongst the group. Just want to see how far the interest goes and if its worth trying to organize.

I just picked up tyberos and a condemptor dread, to start a carcharodons force, and I'd love to take on a for world list (tho I hear the siege breaker list is gross). I don't think there needs to be a separate league, but as long as you tell your opponent, and they are cool, go for it!
Like apocalypse, not everyone has fW units, but doesn't mean fighting one wouldn't be sweet.
And if someone brings cheese, they shall not get to play that cheese again if they develop a rep of being a nasty player.

kick. ass. those dreads look so awesome. i want one. and then 3 more.

@Paz: 2 Points: The Seige Vanguard list is actually very balanced and take a LOT to get the play style down. Dan(Bear) has been playing it for the past month and a half in our Badab league and... hasn't done so well. Ben tabled him in 3 turns. I've beat him twice, pretty badly. It's a hard list, but it has some serious limitations too.

Second point. I agree there doesn't have to be a split in the league (although if some people want to run a FW-allowed League at the same time as the Std League, we might need to work out a system.) It'd be kinda need if we just had a bad or ticker on our avatars that said FW player or something like that.

That Comtemptor is awesome, but my Ultras have a plan, and I need to stick to it. Must... not... deviate....

oh you'll deviate. you deviational deviant.

Sounds sweet if you guys want to run that league I'd be interested in seeing how it turns out. Currently there's no FW in play offs but Paz is right if you ok it with your opponent pre game then FW is fine for a league game. That ruling had to be in there to stop what I'm going to call "Bag of Dicks Syndrome" that will inevitably occur. Basically in my experience I've seen people proxy completely random =I=censor=I= as this or that from their codex that they don't own, most people are ok with that for a model or two as a friendly courtesy. However when some guy rolls your lights out with his Christmas tree counts as bjorn the fell handed and it wades through 10 finely painted terminators for example then it's a little harder to stay positive and composed about the game.

Now add FW into the mix, half the FW rules are so noncompetitive its tough not to say "Wow that unit you spent hours painting and paid a large sump of coin for sucked total dick" without a smug look on your face, as you pass someones extremely detailed resin figs back to them. Some of the FW rules can break the game (I'm not saying that some of the normal 40k rules don't break the game either but it seems easier to forgive) and now you combine the proxying problem with some game breaking rules and add in the fact that most people can unintentionally come across as total dick heads and irritate you. It makes for a gaming atmosphere that is impossible to have any fun in.

I will refrain from voting because my reason for not wanting to play in a FW league is not wanting to be subjected to people with Bag of Dicks Syndrome, and has nothing to do with being afraid of FW. If there were rules like "If you don't actually own that model from forgeworld, then tough =I=censor=I= sunshine." and the consequences for even hinting that you want break that rule are your opponent gets to punch you in the mouth, then I'd love to play in that league.

Tom has a great point. If there were FW specific games within the league, you should have to actually field them as they are.

Wanna play Astral claws Tyrant legion? You gotta play astral claws marines (the rules are there for these specific models, not for rules proxy madness)

I think it would be sweet to have specific FW games in the league. I have a few FW things, tom does, I know robyn rolls World eaters from forge world, and mike has red scorpions, lets do it up!

Also, once my Carcharodons Astra are playable, ima shark you muthas out!

NO PROXY BS THO, NO SPACE WOLVES USING THE CHAOS RENEGADES LIST ETC!

Matt, I am looking at you. From your Mom's bed.

rofl, paz, your smack skills always make me laugh.

yea, i should have stated that for the IA league, i would say that people have to own or model their army to be what they're playing. i wanted to test a Land Raider Achilles just to see if a $98 tank was worth buying for anything beyond the modeling and painting aspect, so i put my thunderfire cannon in the front and a pair of TL MultiMelta sponsons i modeled to be the same length as the ones in the photos are on it, so it's a proxy but an accurate one. then i just remind my opponent that front hatch doesnt work on the Achilles, so you only have to block the side ones to pen the guys inside it.

but yea, i agree, if you cant adequately model what you want to field, unless you say "hey, i want to playtest a new model before i invest the money to buy it from FW, is that ok with you?" i wouldn't want a proxy match either. Also, in regards to the Siege Vanguard codex in the badab war books, they take that a step further on the new models/rules; several wargear entries actually state "Must be visibly modeled on the unit." such as siege mantlets come to mind. they're a huge shield, like a riot shield, or as the pics in the book show, combat shields, and each guy in the tactical squad wears one, and it lets him re-roll failed armor saves against shooting attacks. but they must be modeled wearing the shields. even states in the rule. because, the shields are so bulky, they're not allowed to take rhinos or razorbacks. in fact, a siege army taken with any of the special rules it gives you, effectively forces that army to walk the entire board.

and they have to give the opponent a 40mm objective marker to place in their deployment area, and the siege army has to claim it or the best they can do is tie the game. if they dont claim it plus do whatever the mission is, they can never win a game.

basically alot of the FW stuff in book 9 & 10 we've been playtesting in our Badab campaign, and i can tell you guys they balanced them out pretty good. it's alot like picking up a plain codex unit. which is incredible considering they made 24 new HQ choices for marine players in those 2 books.

but back on point, yea, no proxy madness should be a requirement; wouldnt want someone saying "this baneblade is actually a Caestus Assault Ram." (yes, the model is that big you need a baneblade to proxy the scale right.)

Would this league allow super heavies and gangantuan creatures?

super heavies is an apocalypse unit, and apart from the tyranid codex, i dont believe any gargantuan creatures are allowed outside of apocalypse games either.

Honestly, just read your codex for your army, and then read the Imperial Armour units that are not in the Apocalypse books.

that means for Codex:Space Marines, you could field:

• Damocles Rhino
• Chaplain Dreadnought
• Land Raider Prometheus
• Caestus Assault Ram
• Land Speeder Tempest
• Deathstorm Drop Pod
• Land Raider Achilles
• Land Raider Helios
• Whirlwind Hyperios
• Thunderhawks
• Lucius Pattern Deadnought Drop Pods

for those of you playing Codex:Chaos Space Marines, that means fielding units like:

• Plague Ogryns
• Blight Drones
• Blood Slaughterers
• Hell Blades
• Hell Talons
• Plague Hulk of Nurgle
• Spined Chaos Beasts
• Chaos Warhounds
• Macharius Vanquisher
• Malcador Annihilators
• Malcador Defenders
• Malcadors
• An'ggrath the Unbound
• Scabieathrax
• Zarakynel
• Giant Chaos Spawn

that should give you an idea of the kind of units that would be allowed in addition to normal codex units.

well the reasoning im asking about this is because right now, you have to ask first, and, your not allowed to use them in playoffs. So that means if you spent hours and hours building a Siege Vanguard army, which does require a good deal of re-modeling if you field it wysiwyg, you have to ask before playing each time you want to field it, and when its time for playoffs, your not allowed to use it at all. that's why i wanted to ask if there's interest in making a division that just states yes you can field stuff like this from start to finish so the ones that invest the time and actually build, model, and paint their armies into these wonderful collections that are heavily relying on IA expansion units aren't being told "sure, you can play that army in the league, but once the finals start, its an illegal list." know what i mean?

If there were a couple people that had modelled such an army.. and played it the entire league.. I can gurantee you that if was balanced, it woudl be hard to deny the player to use it. They just have to ask.

The rules aren't written in stone or anything.. logic rules the day. I saw nothing in the siege vanguard list that would warrant any worry. Yes, it's a bit scary you can field dread's as troops.. but they still don't count as scoring units.. and if someone was say fielding 15 dreads in a list.. no one would play them anyway.

If someone asked ahead of time and they weren't abusing anything, I can't see there being any problems. The thing about leagues such as this.. if you keep bringing goofy lists to play with or your a big jerk, eventually no one is going to want to play you anymore.. so your forced into changing something either way.

But again, I'm not discouraging a separate league at all.. the more 40k stuff going on the better. I'm just making sure there's a good reason to do so.

I don't think the intent was to have a seperate "league" per se. More like different divisions (one core 40K with FW with opponents permission and a seperate division with all FW allowed). I think what is trying to be done is encourage the use (and acceptance) of FW rules and units. While there are a few unit that could be abused (The Drop Pod who must not be named is the elephant in the room, yes?), if someone WERE to abuse it, Tom's "Bag of Dicks" rule would apply. They'd find themselves playing with themselves. (Is this the part where I'm supposed to throw in, "..., just like Matt K"? Cuz that just seems mean, and I hardly know the guy:)

I probably wouldnt mind playing VS forgeworld models if a player invested considerable time and money into it.

EDIT-- As long as nothing with structure points of like 10 wounds 3+ invul T8-10 shows up