Another Whirl at guard

So, I decided to bring out my Imperial Guard once again. I like to go against most trends so I am once again pushing for an all infantry army. I realize vehicles are so good and will help win games more often, but I already have a heavy mech BA army so want something different. So here is my 2000 point list which I am proposing. I already have a good portion of infantry and missing only some HWS and Sentinels.

Any criticism would be appreciated.
2000 Pts - Imperial Guard Roster

HQ: Company Command Squad (5#, 165 pts)
. . 4 Company Command Squad @ 165 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x4; Regimental Standard; Vox Caster; Laspistol x4; Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken)
. . . . 1 Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Refractor Field; Close Combat Weapon; Plasma Pistol; Shotgun; Cold Steel and Courage; Gung-ho; Man of Adamantium; Senior Officer)

HQ: Company Command Squad (7#, 135 pts)
. . 2 Company Command Squad @ 135 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x2; Lasgun x2; Vox Caster; Astropath; Master of Ordnance)
. . . . 1 Veteran Heavy Weapon Team (Lascannon; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x1; Flak Armour; Lasgun x1)
. . . . 1 Company Commander (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Refractor Field; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon; Senior Officer)
. . . . 1 Astropath (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol; Telepathic Relay)
. . . . 1 Master of Ordnance (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol; Artillery Bombardment)

Elite: Guardsman Marbo (1#, 65 pts)
. . 1 Guardsman Marbo @ 65 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Demolition Charge; Envenomed Blade; Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Melta Bombs; Ripper Pistol; He's Behind You; Loner; Fearless; Fleet; Hit & Run; Move Through Cover; Stealth)

Elite: Psyker Battle Squad (10#, 110 pts)
. . 9 Psyker Battle Squad @ 110 pts (Psyker (Santioned Psykers Only); Unit Type: Infantry; Flak Armour; Close Combat Weapon x9; Laspistol x9; Psychic Choir; Ultimate Sanction; Soulstorm; Weaken Resolve)
. . . . 1 Overseer (Flak Armour; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol)

Elite: Storm Trooper Squad (10#, 165 pts)
. . 9 Storm Trooper Squad @ 165 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Carapace Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Hot-shot Lasgun x9; Hot-shot Laspistol x9; Special Operations)
. . . . 1 Storm Trooper Sergeant (Carapace Armour; Close Combat Weapon; Frag Grenades; Hot-shot Lasgun x1; Hot-shot Laspistol x1; Krak Grenades)

Troops: Infantry Platoon (41#, 490 pts)
. . 1 Infantry Platoon @ 490 pts
. . . . 4 Platoon Command Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x4; Lasgun x1; Vox Caster; Meltagun x3)
. . . . . . 1 Platoon Commander (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon; Melta Bombs; Junior Officer)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Flak Armour; Lasgun x8; Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1; Combined Squad)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Laspistol; Power Weapon)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Flak Armour; Lasgun x8; Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1; Combined Squad)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Laspistol; Power Weapon)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Flak Armour; Lasgun x8; Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1; Combined Squad)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Laspistol; Power Weapon)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x3; Flak Armour; Lasgun x3; Autocannon x3)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x3; Flak Armour; Lasgun x3; Lascannon x3)

Troops: Infantry Platoon (41#, 495 pts)
. . 1 Infantry Platoon @ 495 pts
. . . . 4 Platoon Command Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x4; Lasgun x2; Vox Caster; Meltagun x2)
. . . . . . 1 Platoon Commander (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon; Melta Bombs; Junior Officer)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Flak Armour; Lasgun x8; Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1; Combined Squad)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Laspistol; Power Weapon)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Flak Armour; Lasgun x8; Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1; Combined Squad)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Laspistol; Power Weapon)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Flak Armour; Lasgun x8; Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1; Combined Squad)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Laspistol; Power Weapon)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x3; Flak Armour; Lasgun x3; Missile Launcher x3)
. . . . 3 Heavy Weapons Squad (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x3; Flak Armour; Lasgun x3; Lascannon x3)

Troops: Veteran Squad (10#, 130 pts)
. . 9 Veteran Squad @ 130 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Lasgun x6; Demolition Charge; Melta Bombs; Meltagun x3; Demolitions)
. . . . 1 Veteran Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon; Melta Bombs)

Fast Attack: Scout Sentinel Squadron (3#, 120 pts)
. . 1 Scout Sentinel Squadron @ 120 pts
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker, Open-topped); Autocannon; Move Through Cover; Scouts)
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker, Open-topped); Autocannon; Move Through Cover; Scouts)
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker, Open-topped); Autocannon; Move Through Cover; Scouts)

Fast Attack: Scout Sentinel Squadron (3#, 120 pts)
. . 1 Scout Sentinel Squadron @ 120 pts
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker, Open-topped); Autocannon; Move Through Cover; Scouts)
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker, Open-topped); Autocannon; Move Through Cover; Scouts)
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker, Open-topped); Autocannon; Move Through Cover; Scouts)

Total Roster Cost: 1995


Basic tactics which I will pursue are as follows:
Joining squads will of course depend on mission and table set up.
Both sentinel squad will outflank and take on some rear armour mid-late game, also will attempt to contest deep objectives in those types of games.
I know ST are expensive and arguably overpriced, but with a lack of mobility I need something to pop up in enemy territory and with support of Marbo, they should cause a bunch of disruption. and even contest objectives.
Straken is obviously a CC hammer and will stay in my deployment zone to counter charge enemy deep strikers, flankers, etc.
This army is obviously for shooting and will rely on a static gunline, unless it is objective based which I will split my squads and make large use of the Move, move, move order to get into scoring positions.
This army will require extensive orders to function effectively which is why I included a second company command, and a veteran lascannon is always nice.

I feel I have covered a majority of the problems with this list, but I'm throwing it up here for review anyway.

/discuss

Now this is my thoughts after playing against John's IG on a regular basis, so I might be spouting total nonsense, but here it is:

The 2nd company command: You mentioned that you need orders to be going off and guys to be in the right place. I would forego the lascannon, as it makes a player want to keep the squad still. It might work better to keep them mobile with flamers or grenade launchers in order to move to a key area where they might be needed. Although this would clash with the Master of Ordnance. Hmm, that's a dilemma.

The Vets: They really need carapace armor or a ride. With all those scary meltaguns and demo charges they are a priority target and will attract a lot of incoming fire.Since they have to get danger-close to the enemy it is unlikely they will be able to do their jobs before being blowed up. Of course if you take carapace you loose the demo kit. Perhaps take out 2 sentinels and give the vets a chimera? Then you would have a few points left over to play with. Maybe meltas or plasma for the stormtroopers?

Other than that, awesome old-skool IG army

The issue with giving carapace to the demo squad is it's another 30 points which sucks, and giving them a chimera would be a bust as that is only one vehicle in my whole army to take the entirety of enemy AT fire. What I was thinking of doing is holding them back withmy fire line to make enemy fast vehicles think twice about approaching my ranks. I have las cannons and autocannons to fight enemy tanks at long range, plus some outflanking sentinels. Anything save land raiders shouldn't be a problem at long range and I entirely expect that landraiders will approach my guns.
The thoughts on the 2nd CCS were some I had as well. The idea there is that straken would move around to handle the infantry squads and the second one would be to hang around the HWS which would benefit from the Bring it down! order.

When designing a meta-list like no vehicles I'm all about sticking with the vision. I agree that adding a single chimera is probably a bad idea. Force those enemy meltaguns to shoot humble Imperial Guardsmen and it will bring a smile to your face. Will you be able to blob up your infantry squads without commissars to make them stubborn? Or does Straken help in that regard? I don't have my Guard Codex in front of me right now. I remember he's kind of a beast in HtH, right?

No he doesn't give stubborn. he gives furious charge and counter attack to any unit within 12". I thought about giving commissars to blobs, but i'm not sure I want to mob em. It really lowers the amount of targets I can have and One assault disables 30 lasguns instead of 10. If I get assaulted, hopefully that unit either dies or breaks, leaving the assaulting unit vulnerable to flashlight death. What do ya think?

+1 to taking the lascannon out. I think you'll find that, with only strakken , you'll have unprotected areas that second command squad needs to cover. I would always advocate joining your infantry squads together. You lose the target saturation but I think you gain more in being able to give all the squads FrFSrF with only one order

So scaled it back to 1500 points to make use of what I already have available with a few thing I may still want to get. Here it is:

HQ: Company Command Squad (165 pts)
. . 4 Company Command Squad Regimental Standard; Vox Caster; Laspistol x4; Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken)

Elite: Guardsman Marbo (65 pts)

Elite: Storm Trooper Squad (10#, 165 pts)
. . 9 Storm Trooper Squad
. . . . 1 Storm Trooper Sergeant

Troops: Veteran Squad (10#, 180 pts)
. . 7 Veteran (Sniper Rifle x3; Gunnery Sergeant Harker; Forward Sentries)
. . . . 1 Veteran Heavy Weapon Team (Autocannon)
. . . . 1 Gunnery Sergeant Harker

Troops: Infantry Platoon (505 pts)
. . 1 Infantry Platoon
. . . . 4 Platoon Command Squad (Vox Caster; Grenade Launcher x1; Meltagun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Platoon Commander (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Commissar (Power Weapon)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Power Weapon)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Power Weapon)
. . . . Heavy Weapons Squad (Autocannon x3)
. . . . Heavy Weapons Squad (Autocannon x3)
. . . . Heavy Weapons Squad (Missile Launcher x3)

Troops: Infantry Platoon (265 pts)
. . 1 Infantry Platoon
. . . . 4 Platoon Command Squad (Vox Caster; Grenade Launcher x1; Meltagun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Platoon Commander (Plasma Pistol)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Commissar (Power Weapon)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Power Weapon)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant Power Weapon)

Fast Attack: Scout Sentinel Squadron (150 pts)
. . 1 Scout Sentinel Squadron
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Autocannon; Hunter Killer Missile)
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Autocannon; Hunter Killer Missile)
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Autocannon; Hunter Killer Missile)


The only things I Have to keep in here is Straken, and Harker because I love the models and story and there can be no other vehicles other than sentinels. The concerns I have are the special weapons of the platoon command squads (are they ok or should something else be used here) and whether I should spend extra points to replace already expensive hot-shot guns on the stormtroopers.

Are you able to upgrade some storm troopers to carry special weapons? The str3 is not good enough, they need some extra fire power.

The layout of your Vet squad doesn't fully complement Harker's rules. Maybe you have something in particular in mind for the squad, but Harker's move and shoot is something you may want to consider taking advantage of with move and shoot special weapons for the squad.

The hvy wpn teams are viable in this type of list. Multi-shotting str6 is your bane for sure, but those are your first targets right? You could consider taking more sentinals instead, and I do mean consider guy I know you like lots of guys (teehee).

The grenade launcher/meltagun combo doesn't really complement well in a squad IMO.

I'm using harker's rules for the infiltrate and stealth. Adding the camo cloaks and it's a solid cover save with a unit that can deploy in the best firing lane. I am unable to come up with a better load-out for him as grenades are too close at 24" for a guard squad in my opinion. especially since they will be forward and without close support. I may be wrong though.

What do you think would be better for the ST, meltas or plasma? I'm most likely going to be using them with deep strike.

Would a bunch of grenade launchers be better for my platoon commands?

If deep striking, definitely melta for the storm troopers and dividing them into 2 units of 5 each would (imo) be better. I think you have a defo lack of AV 14 punching power in the list as is (there's only 2 things in the whole list that could destroy a landraider).

I personnally like 4 GL's that can move and shoot 4 strength 6 shots or 4 small blast can be really effective, but there are many out there who will tell you the only way to go is all flamer or all melta guns. I think GL's are effective against a large number of things: hordes, light vehicles/transports, MC's (if torrented) etc.

I disagree on the kit for the stormtroopers. They are good at killing infantry (MEQs) and MCs, not vehicles. Why waste those expensive AP 3 shots? I would always give them plasma guns. Save the melta for vets and command squads. Plasma will at least give them a chance versus a transport if there is nothing else to shoot. Not a fan of plasma guns in the infantry squads, and super not a fan of plasma pistols at all. I would look at unifying the special weapons in the infantry platoons. I like grenade launchers or nothing.

I really think this list needs moar melta somewhere though.

Here's the changes. I went with meltas in the st and switched the platoon commands to have grenade launchers. I also changed Harker's squad to equip all grenade launchers for specials. I like having plasmas in the squads because it gives me some kick vs heavier troops/transports. I did drop the plasma pistols on the platoon commanders though.

HQ: Company Command Squad (165 pts)
. . 4 Company Command Squad (Regimental Standard; Vox Caster; Laspistol x4; Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken)
. . . . 1 Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken

Elite: Guardsman Marbo (65 pts)

Elite: Storm Trooper Squad (5#, 105 pts)
. . 4 Storm Trooper Squad (Meltagun x2)
. . . . 1 Storm Trooper Sergeant

Elite: Storm Trooper Squad (5#, 105 pts)
. . 4 Storm Trooper Squad (Meltagun x2)
. . . . 1 Storm Trooper Sergeant

Troops: Veteran Squad (140 pts)
. . 9 Veteran Squad (Grenade Launcher x3)
. . . . 1 Gunnery Sergeant Harker

Troops: Infantry Platoon (495 pts)
. . 1 Infantry Platoon
. . . . 4 Platoon Command Squad (Vox Caster; Grenade Launcher x3)
. . . . . . 1 Platoon Commander
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Commissar (Power Weapon)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Power Weapon)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Power Weapon)
. . . . Heavy Weapons Squad (Autocannon x3)
. . . . Heavy Weapons Squad (Autocannon x3)
. . . . Heavy Weapons Squad (Missile Launcher x3)

Troops: Infantry Platoon (255 pts)
. . 1 Infantry Platoon
. . . . 4 Platoon Command Squad (Vox Caster; Grenade Launcher x3)
. . . . . . 1 Platoon Commander
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Commissar (Power Weapon)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Power Weapon)
. . . . 9 Infantry Squad (Vox Caster; Plasmagun x1)
. . . . . . 1 Sergeant (Power Weapon)

Fast Attack: Scout Sentinel Squadron (3#, 150 pts)
. . 1 Scout Sentinel Squadron @ 150 pts
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Autocannon; Hunter Killer Missile)
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Autocannon; Hunter Killer Missile)
. . . . 1 Scout Sentinel (Autocannon; Hunter Killer Missile)

Definitely better than the previous list. Give a whirl and see how it plays. I'm not a huge fan of the missile launcher heavy weapons squad. They are worse at killing transports and dreadnoughts than the autocannon ones, but cost more points. If you want them for the templates, take the cheap mortar squads. If you downgraded the plasmas in the infantry squads to grenade launchers, and the missile launchers to autocannons you'd have enough points left to take an additional mortar heavy weapon squad. Just a thought.

I'll keep that in mind Tim. I'll give this a shot and let you know.