discussions on the IA dread drop pod

to prevent thread-jacking, i figured i'd put this here.

so. some of the gamers have professed they think the Lucius Pattern Dreadnought Drop Pod is cheesy.
I disagree. i think for the points cost, its balanced for what it does.
yes, it becomes an assault vehicle so the dreadnought can assault the turn it comes onto the board. but there is a price for that;

a basic drop pod is 35 points. that includes the storm bolter inside of it, which is usually 10pts.
so a basic pod is really 25 on its own.

a dread pod is 50. so that means to gain that assault vehicle rule, you pay another 25 points on the base cost.
given your rarely gonna see more than 1 or 2 of these used in a game cause they cost the amount they do, and deep strike rolls being as they are, i think the point costs are fair and balanced for what it does.

edit; and remember; your only gonna see, at most, 3 of these.

Nah, half your drop pods come in on turn 1, so if I could first turn assault you with 4 dreadnoughts that's what I'm going to do. I put some crappy minimum troops in my regular pods and then master of the forge it up for 6 dreads in lucious pods and try and get as many normal pods into the list as I can so that I can drop more lucious pods on turn 1, because if I get my Str 10 attacks auto hitting against all your vehicles before you get to move it would be extremely hard for me to lose that game, even if I only have tac marines in pods left.

That was pretty obvious 155pts for 3 or 4 attacks against against your 250pt landraider before it moves... that's what we're talking about. We're not talking about a peicemeal army failing its reserve rolls because if your rolling for reserves with your lucious pods.... (some metaphor about how you'd be stupid for doing that)

I think it's pretty easy to sum up.

When the pod hits on target and locks up your expensive Vanguard or Nobs or whatever, or blows up your Land Raider on the top of turn one, it sucks and looks like the cheesiest 50 pts ever.

When he scatters 12" away and can't do much of anything, and you light him up like the 4th of July (sorry, Canada Day), it seems like a waste of 50 pts.

I agree with Spamus, it's *VERY SLIGHTLY* underpriced, b/c due to Drop Pod rules (No deep strike mishap, you just reduce the distance), and terrain etc. you are realisticly ALWAYS going to be assault range (rad of the drop pod, 2" disembark, a 60mm (2 1/2"?) base, and a 6" assault move... that's got to be at least 12") and for a Ironclad/Furioso dread thats awesome.

But its also really no different from a suicide Chosen/Sternguard w/ a Drop Pod or infiltrate either is it?

FW *used* to have some balance issues. From the stuff I own and have read, everything since IA5 is balanced (at least as balanced at the regualr lists). Most of IA3 and 4 where put in the new codexes anyways. IA1&2 have been completely updated witht he FAQ. I think this is really a non-issue.

@Tom: Yeah, I came up with a similar list using BA in about 5 min. Now if that guy asks you to play him again, what are you gonna say? Is it that the list is broken or that the guy is a jerk? Would it be that hard to have a house rule binder saying "in the top of first turn all vehicle are assumed to have moved at combat/cruising speed?"

yea, thats the other thing; yes BA and a vanilla marine with a master of the forge 'can' take 6 dreads in pods. and then load out all their troop choices in pods (at minimum of a fully strength 10man unit; 5 man units cant take drop pods).

but will you ever play that guy again?

i'm not saying there isn't the possibility that someone could abuse them; there is. However; if he wants to do that, he's not going to find many people that will play him again if he keeps running that list. Also, if he wants to field 6 to 12 drop pods, i would demand he physically owns 12 drop pods. some of us can waste money, but most of us arent gonna buy a dozen drop pods just to be a jerkhead.

and if he wants to field all 6 dreads in drop pods, he should differentiate them some how so you know theyre not normal pods; reinforcing the doors, or buying the official FW models for example.

I agree that noone is trying to abuse them locally, but the rulings have to be consistent. If they allow them for the reasonable player, then they have to allow them for the unreasonable players too. If it can potentially be overpowered it is best to just not allow them IMO.

personally, i field 2 dread pods; yes, both carry ironclads; one's a chainfist/regular arm one, and the other is a seismic hammer/hurricane bolter one with the frag assault launchers. but they also belong to my biker army; all bikes, plus them and 2 land speeder typhoons.

one's been converted with heresy era armored doors from chapterhouse studios to denote its not a regular pod, the other i havent ordered the doors for yet, so i just say its a normal one and give it to the hurricane bolter ironclad if anyone hasnt played against that list yet.

also, another thing i do to change things up against someone i havent played them against before, is that i wont auto deploy 1 on the first turn; he autodeploys 2nd turn, and from turn 3 onwards i roll for the other one.

i have to play that list several times against someone, and see they have something scary i dont want anywhere NEAR my bikers before ill ever 1st turn deploy a dreadpod and assault it; i hate when my pretty new tank gets autokilled first turn before it moves or shoots, so i dont like doing that to others if i can help it.

I'm going to say no FW at all in playoffs, but for league play I'd like everyone to notify there opponent about what FW they'd like to play and give them the chance to veto it. I don't like having expensive, amazingly sculpted and beautifully painted models sit around not seeing games, but I also don't want anyone feeling cheated or having a game that isn't fun. So since most games are setup on the forums ahead of time a simple, "Hey mind if I use two Lucius Drop Pods?" would solve the problem. It gives you a chance to switch opponents to someone interested in playing against that list or to switch your list to a GW codex list. Since you can max out your weekly points by playing one game with a painted army either you'll find someone to play that list against or you'll have to change the list. I don't feel that this is unfair, there's numerous GW Tournaments where FW is allowed with an exception list and most tournaments disallow them altogether, I don't want to have to be the guy who says yes or no to each unit and I don't want to argue over the validity of my choice to veto this unit or that unit, I still think opponents permission is a perfectly valid system for bringing FW models into the game.

Summary: No Forgeworld in Playoffs. Opponents permission for League games.

I think everyone can live with that ruling.

@Tom: How's Wednesday at 6pm for our game?

That seems like a perfectly workable solution. Issue resolved!

Sure, Wednesday at 6pm it is.

I know this thing has been resolved in the league finals and tourny play, and in a way I like too, but I just thought I would like to add my concern here with the views people have on forgeworld things. My take on forgeworld is simple, if you are playing a game where you get to choose your opponent forgeworld is not a problem. Its like you say, don't play the guy who pulls out the cheesy list you don't like. When it comes to tournys and league finals, you don't get a choice. You play who you randomly get or you don't play at all. In those circumstances I believe forgeworld should be left out in case somebody does decide to abuse the hell out of it and wreck the days of everybody who doesn't get to decide not to play them because their list is cheesy as hell.

Nobody wants to feel they got bumped out of winning a tourny cause they ended face first into six dreadnaught droppods. Kinda ruins the whole day.