Play-off listing

Ok guys, big thanks to Robyn for keeping us on track, I'm pretty busy with school and completely forgot to ask him for the scores but luckily he's all over it.

All of the points Robyn posted are correct except for Jesse will get 1910pts as well because I believe you are tied with Ben S. for 7th so you guys will both get that points value.

So I think picking names out of a hat was done at some point? I just went with the random number generator function in java so here's this leagues match ups divided into conferences because I can:

MALICE EAST
Tyson vs Adam
Ben S. vs Jesse

TERROR WEST
Ben M. vs Joe
Tom K. vs Beau

Ok so here's the one extra play off rule, it's been something that the league has done as far as I can remember (although I'm quite new) but there's absolutely no list switching as Robyn mentioned, also all the rules that he posted up there apply to these play offs. The scenarios will be rolled for out of the rule book, ties go to kill points, then table quarters, then league standing.

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!

Quick question, does anyone have a problem with me using the Ork Mega Dread from forgeworld?

Just like to make sure before I make a list.

No issues here, I'm Pro-FW (except dread drop pods, those are cheese-filled-goudafests)

So here's the thing, I have a boatload of finals to write still, and realistically, I won't be able to play until the 19th. Is that going to be a problem?

Nope, I completely understand the whole school problem and we're all busy as hell right now, I'm going to hold off on starting the next league (give people some time to stick all those GK armies together) mostly because I'm so busy in May I might not have time to sleep.

just my 2 cents, but if you guys allow FW items, you either allow ALL FW items, or nothing; you cant pick and choose specific things from it that cant be allowed; that's like me saying you can play chaos against me, but demon princes and lashes are banned.

all of it, or none of it guys; the pod may seem cheese to you, but they do pay extra for that and lose the weapon in it.

dusktiger wrote:just my 2 cents, but if you guys allow FW items, you either allow ALL FW items, or nothing; you cant pick and choose specific things from it that cant be allowed; that's like me saying you can play chaos against me, but demon princes and lashes are banned.

all of it, or none of it guys; the pod may seem cheese to you, but they do pay extra for that and lose the weapon in it.

i concur. same issue was raised about special characters and points costs by Ryan.

My points are in the Thunderdome, but I'll repeat/summarize here. I have no issues with Tom taking the MegaDread, although I'd like to see the stats for it just so I'm nit totally int he dark.

We should probably vote on allowing FW before next league, and it really should be all or nothing. They have updated just about every unit, so anything "broken" should be fixed. For the most part it (from browsing old threads) it looks like the issue is the Lucius pattern DP (although I'm surprised noone is calling the Achilles cheesy). I don't see it as broken, at least not past the level of Nob Bikers, Leafblower lists, FNP spam or anything else you can build. Yeah a BA player can load up on Dread and drop them and lock them in assualt right away... but if someone were to do that, I think they'd quickly find noone to play against.

It's kinda like the "Special Characters" thread. It's self correcting. If someone takes a "broken" list with 2 or 3 SC... before long they will be playing with themselves.

Wait, so if we're allowing FW, does that mean I can build a list including baneblade's and titans?

personally i wouldnt want to, but is a mega-dread slightly larger than a dread, or is it warhound big?

i wouldnt count super heavies in allowing FW, because super heavies are more of an apoc-type thing; even if you allow FW rules, that doesnt mean you allow apoc rules; apoc is apoc and an entirely different expansion; like planetstrike. Imperial Armour however, is just a unit expansion mean to play with the core rulebook and codex.
I think that should be specified; allowing imperial armour doesnt also mean your allowing apocalypse or planetstrike; your just allowing a handful of units that still fit unit-type categories found in the original codex, and super heavies like baneblades, titans, and thunderhawks are definitely not described in the core books. thsoe are purely apocalypse-only units.

@canadin: If I remember the IA rules; superheavies are actually a seperate detachment/army, so it rules them out for "normal" games.

Going by the pic, a Megadread looks to be roughly Dreadknight/Trygon sized.

A Mega Dread is a really pimped out and stompy Ork Dreadnought. (Their version of an ironclad, essentially) It's also huge and awesome, btw.

Baneblades and things like that are in their own category. It's one thing to take a mega dread or some tank variant, and another thing entirely to take a baneblade or a heirophant. Easiest way around this is say "FW is allowed, with the exception of superheavies, flyers, and gargantuan creatures. The issue with the really big things in standard games is that the opponent often has lots of trouble dealing with these things unless they specifically prepare for them. They're much better in apoc where everyone can bust out the big toys and knows what's going down.

I should edit my statement from earlier, it would be all or nothing for FW (with some exceptions, see above, let's be sensible here people) Even the dread pods, I just think they're about 10-20 points undercosted, but that's not the point here.

Honestly the fact that two people have had to clarify that if we allowed forgeworld models we won't allow super heavies has made me lean towards not allowing forgeworld. I'm going to disagree with everyone about the all or nothing FW blanket statement, this game is about fun, that's why you need your opponents permission to bring FW stuff, so I'm much happier having each individual decide whether or not they think that model is fair and will still allow for a fun game, because there's some stuff in FW that is so unbelievably beardy (New Mekka-Dread can take a KFF, battlewagon mounted lifta droppa, etc) Some stuff however is pretty fair for their points and really fun to use, and other stuff its very points heavy for it's usefulness in game but if you own those models you probably want to use them.

So the Mega Dread, hopefully without angering GW:

Arm 13 front and side, 5+ invul save, killkannon (the battlewagon gun), rippa claw (DCCW +1 on the vehicle damage result), 2 big shootas, Once per game it can fleet but if it rolls a 1 it's immobolized.

All that for 195pts.

Since we're going for the All or Nothing blanket statement I'll end my own debate with I won't be allowing FW models in the interest of fairness thanks dudes.

I have to disagree there. There is "normal" forgeworld stuff (mega dread for example) and apocalypse. Really big things should be reserved for apocalypse, because that's really where they belong. It's not that superheavies are cheesy in themselves per se, if we agree to play apoc, I can plan for that and build my list accordingly. We don't want to be restructuring our lists entirely because another guy MIGHT take a baneblade in a casual league game. It's a game mechanics issue more than anything. Personally I don't have an issue with regular Imperial Armor things in standard games. Look at the Mega Dread stats you posted, they look fairly scary by themselves, but let's take a standard codex entry:

TRYGON
T6 6W 3+sv, 7 attacks on a charge at WS5 rerolling all hits with fleet, and has a decent shooting attack. All that for 200 pts. There are a good number of normal codex entries that raise some eyebrows, and they're perfectly legal to take. Ravagers for example. 3 DLs moving 12" for the low low cost of 105 pts? And I pay 160 for a naked carnifex. WTF is what I say to that.

I don't believe the "needs opponents permission" thing works. What ends up happening is nobody ever gives permission for anything different, purely because it's different and strange. It's human nature. Who remembers using special characters back in 3rd when they were opponents permission? They never saw the table, ever. To stand across from another person and play the game tself is by opponents permission if you think about it.

AAANNNYYYWAYS I'm not the one making the rules here I guess, may as well stop rambling.

Not really sure where to post this, but the match between Adam and I ended up as my win. Just so people know.

So this pretty much sums up the game between Tom and me. Dawn of War/Capture the Flag. Tom won first turn. Fast forward.

Top of turn 4. Tom is moving his Dreads, Kans and Trukks up on my Ultramarines. He's about a turn away from getting into close combat (and blowing thru my rhinos and tactical squad) unless I stop him in his tracks. I'm looking at my force. Hmmm I can stay still with that Rhino and shoot the Missile Laucher from the hatch.

Hey Missile Launchers! I can shoot my Devastators at the Kans and.....

Hey where are my Devastators, and why didn't I shoot them last turn?

I look around, fearing I've hidden them in some terrain and forgot about them...... then I turn around.

They are on the table behind me, having never been deployed. The Sergeant is pointing an accusing finger at me, and I can hear his voice in my head.

"YOU. ARE. AN. IDIOT." (Please note my sig.)

They came on in the bottom of turn, walking on, hoping I'd stop some of the trucks before they got locked in close combat.

I did not. The game technically lasted til turn 7, but it was over at turn 5 when my last tactical squad was killed. I could at best contest my objective, and his objective was surround by a wall of rusty steel that I was not going to get to.

Between by bad rolling (better than last week, but it still sucked) and forgetting my Devastators, I pretty much shoot myself in the foot. Not that Tom needed the help.

Yeah Beau nothing went well for you in that game, but I'd definitely like to give you a rematch since you were pretty awesome to play against, we had a really chill game, never haggled about cover or rules or anything and just had a normal chat and played some 40k in the background, which was pretty awesome.

I think I need to put a big flag on them or something. In my game last week, I deployed them in the second level of some ruins, excellant view of the whole board, in range of just about everything.

I then forgot about them on one turn, and almost forgot about them in the second.

Anyways, I still had a blast. The devastators and second tactical squad held up a squad of his boyz for something like 5 player turns. His dread on the other hand locked up my Assault Termies and Librarian for almost just as long. (I had scored 2 weapon damaged rolls earlier, and worried he would STILL have 2 weapons and an immobile roll to give, I elected to pop both CCW.) I think overall we went 2-3 rounds without me failing an invulnerable save OR scoring more than a shaken on him. It was like it would never end.

Does anyone know some dice voodoo? I was CONSTANTLY rolling 3's when I needed 4's, multiple 1's and 2's . You name it.

Oh, my other bonehead move. 2nd turn I move ALL my vehicles 12", forgetting that NO ONE but my LR and LS's would be able to fire.

Learning experience. Like every other game since January, I've learned something. Looking forward to the summer league. Hopefully it'll be as good or better than this one.

@Tom: I think it's always a good game when you can laugh at the dumb stuff you do. I'd play ya again any time.

You use the small chessex dice?
My experiences with the round cornered small chessex dice is they suck and constantly roll bad. It just came to dawn on me that there is no feesable way that my luck is that bad so i pretty much place them into a bad moulding and balancing. Every single set of chessex dice I ever had that were the small rounded cornered ones would ALWAYS roll bad.

Then Jesse bought me the large rounded corner ones from Chessex that were custom made with the blood angel symbol on the 6 side. Those are the only chessex dice that I have had no issues with and they seem to actually roll average. Sometimes I get bad spells, but I don't count em anymore.

So, perhaps you need new dice?

lolz, i love small chessex dice, never won a game without them.

Most of my dice are actually GW, for various sources... 40K dice set, Battle of MaCragge, AoBR, the dice block, the Space Hulk game... those are the one I usually use. The remainder are raided from board games, Battletech, and such.

Actually the one thing I've noticed is some of my dice have a tendancy to "spin". Like take a d6, and place it on one vertex and spin it like a top. There have been times the die is still spinning and I can tell what it's going to fall on.

Maybe it is time to pick up some new dice.

So who am I to play against next for the league finals?