2000 pt Wolves

So after playing my first games with this group I discovered a few things. 1) Im rusty and need to brush up on a few rules I'm not used to. 2) having to capture objectives is not like kill points and 3) my dice dont like me anymore. Heres one of the lists ive been working on with some changes I made since my lesson last night.

-Rune priest w/ plasma pistol, wolf talisman
-Wolf lord w/ Jump pack, Wolf claws, wolf necklace, wolf talisman
-Wolf guard bodyguard. (4 models)w/ Jump packs
2 w/Power weapons, plasma pistols 1w/thunder hammer, bolt pistol, 1w/bolt pistol, close combat weapon, mark of the wolfen.
-Scouts (5 models) 1w/meltagun, 2w/power weapons, all have meltabombs
-Ven. Dreadnought w/assault cannon, heavy flamer, dreadnought weapon, drop pod
-Grey hunters (10 models) X2 1w/plasma gun. 1w/ meltagun, 1w/power fist
-Blood Claws (8 models) X2 1w/flamer, 1w/ power weapon, Rhino
-Long fangs, 1w/lascannon, 1w/multi melta, 1w/missile launcher, 2w/ heavy bolters razorback w/heavy bolters
-Predator w/Lascannons

I might give the blood claws an extra model each or give some packs the mark of the wolfen to fill out the points cost. Not sure yet.

Rune priests shouldn't take plasma pistols. In fact, nothing ever should. Plasma is not worth it. You pay out the ass for an inferior weapon. Melta is better against vehicles and does the same to infantry as plasma does. Oh, and it doesn't have Gets Hot!

Jump packs are also not worth it. So you move fast(er), but you also die really fast. Thunderwolf mounts are a thousand times better. Hey, I move 6", assault 12", and his base toughness is increased to 5, increasing his survivability a hella lot.

The Lord could use some Warrior Born. That honestly makes him terrifying when on a mount.

Dreadnought needs duality.

Predators with Lascannons are not worth it. Either make them dakka preds and have 2-3 of them or don't.

Why do your scouts have power weapons?

The Long Fangs reek of "hey I'm going to assemble them with every weapon in the box" which leads to something that isn't effective at all. Heavy bolter dev squads = do not want. Your anti-infantry fire should be moved to other slots.

This looks to me like a space marine list that's trying really hard to do space wolves. Some recommendations:

Thunderwolf cavalry. What, you think I need to say more?
Did I mention plasma sucks on infantry models? =/


err, I have to cut this short, I lost track of time and need to head off to work. I'll continue this when I get home!

My brother plays wolves and he kills me with his rune priest because of the initiative test. But give him runic armor because it gives him a 2+ save and 4+ invunerable and it can notify phsyicic powers.

Okay, so, now that that is over (hooray for short shifts)...

What I meant by "duality" is that a model/unit can accomplish both roles as anti-infantry or anti-tank. This allows an army that is flexible rather than one of specialists. This can strength the army with good redundancy because if one section fails the others can pick up. If you look at my Vulkan list, it takes those two concepts to the extreme - everything that can have a flamer and a multimelta has one. So if you manage to take out part of my army the rest of it is still a threat to whatever is left of yours (which is usually a lot, that marine army is good on paper but sucks in the field, but I built it for some fun )

A Predator with lascannons can only ever do one thing. Well, ok, it does two things: 1) Eat up a shitload of points for contributing little, 2) anti-vehicle, only. Take for example a dakka predator - autocannon and heavy bolter side sponsons. It is quite good at anti-infantry fire, but the autocannon can be used to annoy transports if need be - strength 7 without modifiers isn't great, but if you honestly have nothing else to shoot at...

The Long Fangs are an example of bad duality, they also aren't much of a threat because they're slow and their tin can is easily popped and the crew easily slaughtered.

The Dreadnought should have a multi-melta and a flamer if he's going to be podding, that way he can either blow up vehicles or kill some infantry.

IMHO the Wolf Tail Talisman isn't worth taking, even for five points (unless you have absolutely nothing else to spend it on). The majority of the psychic powers that will be a pain are ones that buff your enemy (Fortune, Guide, Catalyst, Onslaught, etc. etc.) or they can simply not be used against that squad. That Runic Weapon 4+ nullify shenanigans is much better anyway, and I don't think they stack (i.e. if you fail one you cannot use the other)

Again with the scouts... lol, they just bother me. I will admit though, I've never been impressed by scouts before. Anyway... Meltabombs? If they're getting assaulted by walkers something horrible has gone wrong anyway, and good luck assaulting any vehicles with them - they'll get shot up before they get close to a vehicle.

This seems like a battleforce army.

so where to begin....

I will agree with thunderwolf cav. as they are good unit but I as of yet I dont have the models to make them. And yes the talisman on the rune priest is overkill but I did not realize that the rune weapon had a nullifier built into it

Jump packs are faster and if you use them right are very surivable. 12" move means that they can stay behind cover where as a 6' move usually means that a cav model will end up in the open at some point.

Long fangs fire control usually make this combination or others worth it. so what if it dont have 5 lascannons. The heavy bolters come in usefull when anything gets to close. I can field almost any combination as I did assemble every weapon in the box 3 times over

Scouts. hehehe You can say anything you want here and I wont consider it. I consider scouts one of the strongest units in the codex in it's own way and take it in almost every army.

Predators....Ya I agree. Just looking for something to replace the hole left behind by the externinator.

Thanks for the reply. Some of it was worthwile.

Good so you do see my point.

OK I can see where this is going. From what I’m getting, (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the things you suggest would make an army stronger in games. My view is who cares. Isn't half the fun making lists and getting to try them out. I am all for playing games and winning but why would I make a strong army and use the same list all the time. I simply posted this list to see what other people think. If there is something bad tell me. If there is something good then tell me.

I am all for your opinions and comments you posted and I thank you for your insight. Some of your points made a lot of sense and it will be useful for future reference. I was just interested in getting some views on what other players see as good and bad. You posted your arguments and I posted mine. I do not want to start debating units and tactics because I would probably never use this list. If I was a new player your comments could be a little intimidating so please don’t be overly harsh on something that is for fun.

something that is for fun.

I didn't see that anywhere so I assumed it was just "here's what I have, what do you think". Now if it's a fun list... well, do whatever you want my space marine list sucks but it's fun to play.

The intimidation thing never really made sense to me, a sort of "treat someone as you want to be treated". If that helps explain why I post the way I do.

I have no problem with the way you post. It just looked like we were about to get into a heated discussion so I wanted to stop it before it happened. As for the intimidation thing my old group did have alot of young children in it so we always had to be carefull because warhammer is supposed to be a fun game. I'm still in my "talk to a 10 yr old" mode and the post was harsh compared to what im used to. I am sorry if it came out differently.

Anyway now that's out of the way how about we play a game together sometime.

That's the spirit, argue about something, agree, disagree, then play a game.

I'll be at the Den next week with my Space Marines and Necrons. Let's play then.

Waiting on a work schedule. Think i'm not off next week but I'll post in the games section when i know for sure.

HC= That link you posted, thats that guy who said all that stuff about Rage, yes/no? I would suggest not listening to the silly tripe that guy espouses.

Urlec= Agreed! I do like this list (as long as that rune priest isn't using jaws... urgh that hurts). Take what seems cool, it will be 10 times more fun to play than the "win" list.

Also, scouts are really good. Once, 5 vanilla marines from 5" away killed a carni in one round( shooting and CC), without a fist! I have never underestimated the trainee marines since.

Paz wrote:HC= That link you posted, thats that guy who said all that stuff about Rage, yes/no? I would suggest not listening to the silly tripe that guy espouses.

His rules interpretations aren't the best (I find myself disagreeing with a lot of what he says) but tactics/list building skills... far beyond anything else I've ever seen.

In fact, I owe a lot of what I know to stelek and his website. He's certainly made me a better player, if not directly, well... he's got me thinking about stuff. Which is more than I can say than the crap places like BoLS fling around

Cool Beans. i just naturally distrust a guy who seems venemous in his stance on "how to play".
I usually listen to advice from players who talk about the benefits of 'all' units, not the best ones. Like a pros and cons list. Ammo bunker and Dakkadakka are pretty good for that, along with Wargamer AU (those frickkin aussies, all the painting skills of the world in one country, I swear).

Hey, I wish I could add my insight to your list, but unfortunately I've yet to read the new Space Wolves Codex or play against them...

urlec wrote:OK I can see where this is going. From what I’m getting, (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the things you suggest would make an army stronger in games. My view is who cares. Isn't half the fun making lists and getting to try them out. I am all for playing games and winning but why would I make a strong army and use the same list all the time. I simply posted this list to see what other people think. If there is something bad tell me. If there is something good then tell me.

I am all for your opinions and comments you posted and I thank you for your insight. Some of your points made a lot of sense and it will be useful for future reference. I was just interested in getting some views on what other players see as good and bad. You posted your arguments and I posted mine. I do not want to start debating units and tactics because I would probably never use this list. If I was a new player your comments could be a little intimidating so please don’t be overly harsh on something that is for fun.

^I think you have a great attitude towards the game ^ and hopefully I'll play against some of your Space Wolves in the future.

Dakkadakka is very good.

Stelek does talk about all units, but he does label some of them as "not worth taking". His Chaos Daemons review is notable of that.

I got a chance to read some more of his posts. It's like listening to a politician. Clean away the =I= censor =I= and underneath theres a nice shiny toilet you can be proud to use.