Iron Hands Raukaan list, 1500pts

so i'm trying to design the army based on the models i own and the models i need to buy yet to make a list using the new suppliment, and i'm currently sitting on the following list:

HQ
Iron Father Epistolary Lydriik (Librarian) 150pts
basecost 65pts;
Epistolary Upgrade 25pts;
Mindforge Stave 15pts;
The Gorgon's Chain 45pts

Techmarine 75pts
basecost 50pts;
Servo-harness 25pts

Techmarine 75pts
basecost 50pts;
Servo-harness 25pts

Elite
Ironclad Dreadnought 230pts
basecost 135pts;
2 hunter-killer missiles 20pts;
Heavy Flamer 10pts;
Lucius Drop Pod 65pts

Ironclad Dreadnought 230pts
basecost 135pts;
2 hunter-killer missiles 20pts;
Heavy Flamer 10pts;
Chainfist Free;
Lucius Drop Pod 65pts

Troops
Scout Squad 84pts
basecost 55pts;
Camo Cloaks 10pts;
Missile Launcher 15pts;
4 Sniper Rifles 4pts

Tactical Squad 160pts
basecost 70pts;
Missile Launcher 15pts;
Razorback with TL Assault Cannons 75pts

Tactical Squad 191pts
basecost 70pts;
+4 guys 56pts;
Grav-gun 15pts;
Power Maul 15pts;
Drop Pod 35pts

Heavy Support
Dreadnought 125pts
basecost 100pts;
TL Lascannon 25pts

Dreadnought 105pts
basecost 100pts;
TL Autocannon 5pts

Hunter 75pts
basecost 70pts;
Stormbolter 5pts

I think you'll find your two heavy support dreads underwhelming.

Either go full on Rifleman or moar Ironclads.

I don't think the Lucious Drop Pod is worth the points. Having either the double melta-gun Ironclad or the double Heavy Flamer Ironclad pop out and kill things is good enough. I don't think you'd have an opportunity to fire those hunter-killer missiles either.

I like the idea of the Hunter, let me know how it plays.

No Ironstone? (I suppose the two dropped Ironclads would be too far away to benefit)

I dunno Mark, being able to assault the turn they drop ( say a wave spent or riptide) before they jump away is pretty amazing.

I think you'll find your two heavy support dreads underwhelming; Either go full on Rifleman or moar Ironclads.
probably, but i want the theme to hold to how most of their dreads keep the left arm. that and most of my opponents tend to get into melee with them at some point and a normal Str 6 AP- attack does little to save you at that point.

I don't think the Lucious Drop Pod is worth the points.  Having either the double melta-gun Ironclad or the double Heavy Flamer Ironclad pop out and kill things is good enough.  I don't think you'd have an opportunity to fire those hunter-killer missiles either.
there's no such thing as double melta; the special arm gets a melta but the normal arm gets a storm bolter to start and can switch to the flamer. i managed to fit the points for the flamers because of the added flexibility it gives the dreads. i'm going to try the lucius pods for a few games and see if making a dangerous terrain check to assault and smash a vehicle apart the turn they arrive is worth it or not.

I like the idea of the Hunter, let me know how it plays.

No Ironstone?  (I suppose the two dropped Ironclads would be too far away to benefit)
nah, loading up a third relic onto the librarian seemed excessive. plus he'll probably be in the pod with the tactical squad, and might not get within 6" of any other dread often enough to use it. it would be nice if basic techmarines got to use it, because they'll be shadowing the two basic dreads. however with their harnesses and the CT's improved omnissiah rolls, they alread fix their dreads on a 3+. too bad they can't repair hull points though.

upscaling the list, i'd certainly turn the dreads into Venerable ones. and make them mortis if the current design isnt working at all. i like the fists though for formations if i play a game with those allowed, because there's one that takes a unit of dreads but they all have to have 1 arm each to do that.

right now i have to get all the infantry models for the list, plus another dread pod and the hunter. i have the scouts already since my scorpions arent allowed to take camo cloaks due to their CT (stupid waste of one of the 2 CT rules they all get; everyone gets 2 buffs and i get a buff and a stupid restriction) and i would prefer to keep my units wysiwyg.

Aegwymourn wrote:I dunno Mark, being able to assault the turn they drop ( say a wave spent or riptide) before they jump away is pretty amazing.

do you get to assault the riptide if it skyfires fusion into your Drop Pod and blows it up? is it an emergency debarkation 300 ft in the air?

I do agree about keeping them as cheap as possible though. and dropping the hunter killers. whatever you drop those pods on, its going to be a short range affair, and i think that the melta and flamers are filling a very specific role that they are very good at all by themselves and you can use those points elsewhere.

that being said, an Ironclad with two missiles strapped to its shoulders is going to look like a badass. ... so that might be worth it right there.

Cant skyfire the DP. You can interceptor the pod or contents immediately after they come on tho

Yup.. Beau has it right. If it can fire because it has interceptor.. you dont.get to do it until the end of your opponents movement phase.

Which .. in this case seems really goofy.. i can shoot at it once its delivered its scary ass cargo and doesnt matter anymore.

But the scary ass cargo also came on from reserve.... So shoot them instead.

Ahh.. i see what your saying. That makes to much sense!

Rhaevyn wrote:

Aegwymourn wrote:I dunno Mark, being able to assault the turn they drop ( say a wave spent or riptide) before they jump away is pretty amazing.

do you get to assault the riptide if it skyfires fusion into your Drop Pod and blows it up? is it an emergency debarkation 300 ft in the air?

I do agree about keeping them as cheap as possible though. and dropping the hunter killers. whatever you drop those pods on, its going to be a short range affair, and i think that the melta and flamers are filling a very specific role that they are very good at all by themselves and you can use those points elsewhere.

that being said, an Ironclad with two missiles strapped to its shoulders is going to look like a badass. ... so that might be worth it right there.

It is always better to force the interceptor with Tau than allow them to Markerlight it up and "play on their turf" so to speak.

the H-K's are more again for Wysiwyg since they're already on them, though i've had great luck with them against armour, so they always earn their price back and more.  plus having them there definitely makes them look more badass and you know what they are before even seeing the arms.

one of the things i like most about the suppliments and 6th ed overall is theyre encouraging fluffy lists instead of being a fat cheater that powerlists everything. which is good cause i think i got the fluffyness down nicely, but im not sure about the troop choices. i think they feel a little bit weak.

I thought the Lucius lost the assault on deepstrike option. Doesn't it just give shrouded or something?

no, the most recent lucius went up in cost and now you make a dangerous terrain check to assault out the turn you arrive.
edit: they also use up a fast attack slot for each you take unless you're playing an apoc game, in which case they're a dedicated transport.

I own the new IA apoc book and looking at lucius it says at the end of the assault vehicle blurb... " may not assault the same turn the drop pod arrives from deepstrike."

Though with semi careful landings you put your dread on the door of the pod hanging in terrain and take the shrouded from the pod and the terrains 5+ cover save assuming u can get your 25%.

Yeah, warseer was crying about the Lucius losing assault off the deep strike...

which apoc book, specifically? because if you mean the 2nd edition one that came out a couple years ago, that version was replaced by the one in aeronautica. the newest apoc book released this year doesnt have the lucius pod in it at all. (got that one on my ipad)

the new FW apoc book from this year. i have it in my hands right meow.

??  ok, you got a page and the full exact name of the book? cause i am not seeing this version of the pod your talking about. the newest one i can find says that it's now a 65pt pod, it takes up a fast attack slot and you choose a dread to occupy it, and that you may in fact assault the turn it arrives in so long as you pass a dangerous terrain check.  im not seeing anything about shrouded, and i just did a search on the ipad version of this book:


and there's no mention or entry anywhere for a lucius drop pod.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Armour_Books/IMPERIAL_ARMOUR_APOCALYPSE.html

pg 24

sec im getting supporting photos together

here we go...







one just shows in the 2013 book not the 2012 IA areo. The other is the relevant page and the third is the specific blurb in case the big pic wasnt readable (not in that order lol)

Though discussion continues on your options when you land as the rules are like always a little wiggly. Some say the "stay in the pod" part means your embarked in an open top transport and can shoot but not be targeted (the pod cant the dread can't) but others say your just litterally in the pod and True LOS prevails Though since your touching the pod you have shrouded. and probs getting 25% from the pod itself giving you a 3+ cover for the dread in that scenario.

....what?? that's the dumbest wording i've ever seen!  it can assault the turn it disembarks, but not if that's the turn it arrives in. that's so retarded.
what's the point in that? your gonna disembark the turn it arrives in regardless, that's how all the pods work! hell, the normal pod forces you to disembark the moment it arrives. that's so stupid.

the one i own i cant find on their site right now, so it's probably considered a waste of paper now.  it's Imperial Armour Apocalypse Second Edition (mixed that one up with aeronautica, both have blue covers. ) page 32 has the pod and it has a different assault vehicle rule which states

a dreadnought disembarking a lucius pattern dreadnought drop pod can launch an assault the turn it it does so, but must make a dangerous terrain test if this is the case. (not that this differs from the rules for the normal drop pods, and reflects the dreanought drop pods special design and larger size)

afterwards in bold black type it states:

the rules presented here replace those in imperial armour apocalypse II

since i only have this book and not the one you have, im stuck using these rules since its the official book i'd be bringing along with me.  honestly, i didnt even know they did another apoc book this year since GW did release their own.

well so long as the TO's cool with it but sadly my friend the Lucius you know and love is no more. IA apoc came out near the GW apoc book and tbh doesnt have too much in it to get excited about so I understand how its unknown to people. Plague hulks are now fantasticamazeballs and plague drones are somewhat trash (aka appropriately costed now?) but contemptors have more options and new super landraiders that are not superheavies are in there I'd recomend a peak if you can swing it... somehow....

>_>
<_<

It's imperial armor apoc 2nd ed, like they did for vol 1 and vol 3.

Honestly, if the INAT faq could create an index of FW units and the most recent version, you'd think FW could do so.

I think it's pretty clear, you do not have to disembark, the doors must open, it's open topped... You can shoot out of it. Then next turn you assault.

I completely agree but as I am not a Marine player I didn't look into it too much just saw a few threads here n there.

I did see the lucius uproar awhile back but i didnt pay it much attention since i didnt own one and there.typically wasnt anyone using one.

Hmm.. transport.. but open topped. Youre not forced to disembark so having the pod land and being able to shoot amd not be shot back until the pod is destroyed isnt a bad tradeoff. I guess the argument is .. can it be shot ..?

I faced a lucius pod once in tourney . Oh 5 years back. He had a dark angel list amd.. ugh.. what a pain that was. I was "ok" since it was 4th ed. Chaos and each berserker squad had a str 9 fist in it... but trying to plan for an near unstoppable dread assault is not fun.