~Our group ruling on the Mawloc~

Paz Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:44 pm

There is a huge argument online right now about the Mawloc's special rules. The mawloc has the ability to hurt units it deepstrikes onto. Some ppl are arguing that you cannot choose to place the Mawloc's orginal position before scatter on top of another unit, as other units count as impassable terrain. This seems to go against RAI, as the mawloc is supposed to tunnel up right under enemy units, not next to them, and hope to scatter onto the target. So its RAW vs. RAI. Now, "Coredump" from warseer has a good argument for being able to place ANY ds-ing unit onto another (such as a drop pod), making RAW and RAI work.

P. 13
Impassable terrain cannot be moved across or into.
Enemy and friendly models count as impassable terrain
Wobbly model syndrome (if difficult to place, can put it elsewhere for 'safe keeping')

p.95
Deep Strike:
Place one model anywhere on the table.

I am placing the model, not moving into or across anything.

The act of placing the model, is just a step in the DS *process*, it is not actually on the table.
To assert otherwise opens up all sorts of problems.

lets say the model scatters 12", and that takes it 'across' impassable terrain, can it get passed?

Or if it scatters through difficult terrain, does it have to roll a dangerous terrain test?

What if a unit is in the way? Does it get stopped?

Or my favorite, if you initially place the model into terrain, but it scatters out, does it still take a dangerous terrain test? It was in terrain, and it is considered dangerous.....

*IF* you make the assumption that the model is actually on the table, and therefore subject to all the pertinent rules, there is nothing in the rules that lets you ignore going through units, terrain, etc.
By reading all of the rules, in their entire context, it is clear that the first model is used as a placemarker.

To assert otherwise also means spore mines would not have worked in the last (current?) codex.

Thoughts, agreements? I think without the ability to hit specific units with the mawloc, the unit becomes useless. For 30 more points with the trygon, you get 3 times more attacks, ws and some other stats. The underground attack is the only reason to take the unit.

Guardian Angel Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:24 pm

Myself, I agree that the model is a marker/placeholder.....not the actual model. All things that effect the model do not happen until its final location is determined.

I know that logic does not always dictate rules, but....does it make any sense that a single terminator would teleport onto the battlefield.....run in a random direction....then have his buddies teleport in all around him? Not to mention a drop pod....lol.

I think it would all be solved by saying "place a marker anywhere on the table"....not a model.

Paz Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:31 pm

Turns out GW already talked to on this in an article:

"On the Tabletop: The Mawloc's strength obviously lies in the fact that your enemy will not be prepared, and will not know where it will strike. The Terror from the Deep special rule means the Mawloc will Deep Strike directly beneath the enemy causing carnage in their midst. "

GW article

So by description, the mawloc should be able to directly DS onto a model, irregardless of any specific rules allowing it to in the codex, means any unit should be able to DS, though only Drop pods, mycetic spore and Mawlocs can survive DS-ing onto an enemy.

Guardian angel= agreed, marker should be the term.

Guardian Angel Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:40 pm

Ya....cause you are right that without the template damage from his DS......he would be a total waste of points.

Even with him being able to come up underneath units.....I would still probably take a Trygon....just a personal preferance I guess. But then again, deep striking up underneath a unit of terminators (or some equally nasty, hvy armour unit) and eating them would be a ton of fun. lol

Why do I have a feeling that many people will be hiding there units on the top floors of buildings in this guy is around.....lol.

smackman Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:55 pm

Fingers crossed this is the ruling because I am soooo gonna be deep striking monoliths right on top of people, then making them move their models, and then shooting ALL of them... and then pulling out warriors in the turn after.... mmmm this is getting me excited to play necrons again.

Guardian Angel Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:45 pm

that would be a tough sell with the monolith Tom. Mawloc is a special circumstance with this special DS rule. Monoliths would have to follow the same rules as everyone else.....touch a unit....DS mishap table for you.

Guest Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:21 pm

You guys seem to have a kind of backward take on deep strike (or more likely I'm the backward one Razz

). Deep strike does not state that you can't place units onto impassable terrain. Since the unit isn't actually there and you are just determining where you would "like" the unit to go, its not moving into impassable terrain. And they are quite specific wht happens if you land in impassable terrain. For the most part if your unit rolls on target it mishaps. When you move into units that have special deep strike rules, this means you can do this AND survive an on target roll.

Once again, I may be the confused one here, but this all came up when I started the league and there was an argument that you could start with a drop pod on a enemy model and it would move off it you rolled on target. General consunsus I got from that one was that it didn't work, not because you COULDN'T place the drop pod on the enemy, but that you can't reduce its scatter past 0 to get it off, causing automatic mishap if you rolled on target.

Also, Guardian Angel, Monoliths already have special deep strike rules. They don't mishap if they land on models, and push them out of the way instead. You can move a baneblade with that power.

Guardian Angel Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:28 pm

Ah....did not know that about Monoliths. I have only ever play against Necrons once....lol.

Paz Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:10 pm

Darksfear= thats what I mean. Some ppl argue that you can't on-purpose place a DSing unit on top of a unit, because you cant "place" units on impassible terrain. The argument here is not wether that is true, but that the orginal position you pick for DS is not placing any units, the unit only counts as "placed" once it scatters, therefore allowing Mawlocs and Drop pods to be aimed at units, instead of being aimed nearby. This would mean that if Mawlocs are allowed to be aimed at units (as its special rule only says what happens if you hit other units, and doesnt touch on the aiming mechanism) then Drop pods and monolith original positions by rights can be over enemy units, before scatter is rolled.

Guest Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:22 pm

I firmly believe that the Mawloc is able to be placed on enemy units before scatter. In fact, I was already trying to design some potential markers for him to do so.

The GW article makes this a non-issue imho Very Happy

Lord_Commander_Stash Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:31 pm

Both RAW and RAI allow it to be placed on another model before scatter. However impassible terrain will still make it have a misshap.

The trygon however only minimises the scatter distance, thus if you place it on another model and hit it will suffer a deep strike misshap.

Paz Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:16 pm

Stash= true. That I think, stops ppl from trying to bunch the trygon into a location it can't fit into, like inside a number of squads etc. The only time you want to aim at a unit or model is if you are using a mawloc.

Guest Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:33 pm

Just a quick reply Paz, to the whole drop pod thing (Mostly since its going to come up in this thread.)

The mawloc works as far as I can see, my initial reading of it was the sane "You can target it" Version. This also works for monaliths since they push the units they deepstrike on out of the way.

Drop pods and spores however, specifically state that they reduce the distance, not that they move it the minimum distance possible. Its a small distance, but it means if you place the drop pod "Unsafely" and it lands on target, then it has nowhere to reduce the scatter distance, and thus should suffer mishap.

Off to work! Ta!

Paz Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:45 pm

Ah, so same wording as the Trygon, very well! Makes sense, thanks for the note Smile

System Commander Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:40 pm

I think it was definitely meant to be able to DS into a unit, and personlaly would think it would retarded if you had to place it to the side or something and hope it scatters on top. Im all for it marking it on the unit , definitely an excpetion.

Ive always assumed the Monolith can do the same thing.. place it wherever you want and that unit has to move.

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