League Play-off Rules

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League Play-off Rules

Post  System Commander on Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:23 am

I've edited the play-off rules to reflect the current league format.


After the alotted weeks of game play are completed (usually 11-12 weeks), the top 8 players in points totals then move into a single elimination style of play-off match-ups. The match-ups are determined completely by random.

Accumulating points in the league finally pays off now in the play-offs. Army lists are to be made at 2000 points, but depending where you finished in the top 8 players, you will have a penalty of 15 points for each position out of first you are.

1 - 2000 points
2 - 1985 points
3 - 1970 points
4 - 1955 points
5 - 1940 points
6 - 1925 points
7 - 1910 points
8 - 1895 points

The list you create must be the same list used throughout the entire playoffs, no changes are allowed. All matches must be played using the Playoffs scenario chart. All games use the standard primary/secondary objective system, with either a major or minor victory allowing you to advance to the next round. If this results in a tie, then tally kill points and whoever got the most wins. If it's still a tie, whoever finished in a higher position at the end of the league (most league points), wins!

The winner of the league gets prizes to be determined based on league sign fees and the Den's generorsity, and your name is recorded to be added onto our non-existant trophy some time in the future.


Last edited by System Commander on Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:47 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Modified rules - Feb 15)

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Re: League Play-off Rules

Post  smackman on Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:53 am

Does our list have to be in pre-game? or is it just show up on day 1 and that's your list from then on? anything else I should know about for play off special rules?

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Re: League Play-off Rules

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:27 am

Are people really sold on the idea of getting a points-based advantage for playoff position? I realize I'm not even a member of the league yet, but it seems to me that a regular playoff bracket seeding (1 plays 8, 2 plays 7, etc.) is all the advantage that would be necessary.

I mean if the ranking system represents player skill in any way, it seems a little excessive to be granting the better players a further advantage.

I understand the need to make those points you spend the whole league accumulating actually count for something, but +points just seems a bit... off for a playoffs system.

I'm not saying it's horrible because I don't want to be the douchey guy who comes in and tells you that you've been doing it wrong all along, but maybe some justification could convince me?

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Re: League Play-off Rules

Post  System Commander on Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:56 pm

Gathering points in the league is not an accurate base for skill though, it's purely a committment to playing lots of games. Someone in our league can play 20 games a week, losing every single one and still finish first place in the league. The bonus points rewards them for their committment to playing regularly.

In the grand scheme of things, its a very tiny reward. You can throw in some extra guys maybe, but in any game besides the guy in the last playing the guy in first, it's almost negligible. Ive been the guy in the last quite a few times, and have had to the face the guy in first more than once. Ive come out of those games both ways, and they have been great games.

We ran the 1 vs. 8, 2 vs. 7, etc. for the first three years of the league. We've been using this format for the past two years and I personally think this way is alot funner and makes things much more interesting. I also saw a big drop off in games played in the the weeks leading up to the playoffs. As soon as players knew they had made the playoffs, there wasn't much of a point to play excess games if it didn't matter. Now, if it comes down to playing a couple extra games to get an extra 30 point to your army list, it becomes pretty important.

If we based the league on 1st place being the guy with the best win/loss record or something, and your position was an actual measure of real skill, I could definitely see your point.. but it just doesn't translate well into the way the league is set-up.

How do the rest of you guys see it? There are alot of new faces in the past few leagues so your opinion on the playoff rules and league for that part would be welcomed.

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Re: League Play-off Rules

Post  smackman on Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:29 pm

I think going to a win/loss record would be a better measure of skill. However there's ways to stack the deck in either way and it would be a less friendly league because you could avoid playing players that will beat you (like I'd avoid playing matt cuz he woops my ass) and then you'd need to schedule games so that everyone played every opponent etc and it would become alot of organization that would take away from the fun aspect of the league.

I enjoy the way the playoffs presently work, altho I'd like to play the xcam rules where you win by having 4 control points and the next person to match your 4 points plays you for 1st place in an apocalypse game (picking teams if needed) and the loser takes 2nd place. That way it would encourage playing a volume of games and the only way to get a control point is to win a control game which means that you can't lose your way to the top either. The problem would be that the league would have a floating end time that would be whenever 2 people got 4 control points.

However since very few people have control points in a fairly large amount of time I would say that maybe it should be easier to get control points? I know there was already a discussion about this and I don't really have a lot to add to it.

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Re: League Play-off Rules

Post  System Commander on Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:32 pm

Yeah, Im definitely not 100% comfortable with the way we determined playoff spots for the X Cam league. Control points determine first who makes it into playoffs, Strategic points second. So then all of sudden, the person who has the most control points has their Control point advantage, AND their playoff spot advantage. I could take out the use of Control point in the playoffs, but I like that aspect.

Im also not 100% sold on the cost for a control game. I've reduced it from 40 to 30, and put in the option for each player to spend 20 points as that chance of a control point, but Im wondering if even that is a little steep.

I also played myself right out of playoffs. I played and paid for 3 control games (90 strategic points) and finally won my last one. If I wouldnt of won that game, I'd of been sitting with a few strategic points, and nothing else. Now, it doesnt matter to me personally if I make it or not, but it easily could of happened to someone else. Everyone else was just smart enough to hang onto their strategic point instead of risking them. Thats the problem I'd like to remedy.

We have to figure out a way that people will want to play more control games, at the same time reducing the risk involved. Will reducing cost be enough? Maybe putting the cost at say 20 points for a one person control challenge, and 10-15 each if both players want to fight for a control point.

We have to achieve some type of balance. I dont want to make it to easy so everyone in the league has 10 control points at the end. I'd like to see everyone with one or two, and the odd guy at 3 or even 4. What I also dont like though is one person having say, 5 control points and getting all of those rerolls. The odd one is ok here and there, but if all of sudden you have 3 land raiders and you bought the reroll penetrating hit result for each one.. ugh, I could see it starting to get a bit unbalancing and adding an element into the game I dont think is fully wanted.

This then leads me back into thinking perhaps it's more complicated than it needs to be. Should we think about moving back into the standard type of league, or potentially moving back into the escalation style (Start at 500, move up 250 every two weeks).

Maybe we should switch it up every few leagues though to keep things fresh. Alright, discuss!

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Re: League Play-off Rules

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:43 pm

I would definitely support one of the other league types, as I really don't see the attractiveness of gaining points that need to be spent, but which also determine player ranking.

I would also like as little interference in the games (in the form of re-rolls/extra points, etc.) from the league standings as possible. I want to be beaten in a regular game. I am somewhat open to scenarios, but I want it to be an even fight with the regular rules. I think that those sorts of things belong more in campaigns than competitive leagues. While I have nothing against campaigns, I did think this was a competitive league and not a campaign!

But that's just me, and I haven't even signed up yet... (perhaps when I get my FW order organized...)

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Re: League Play-off Rules

Post  Veyure on Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:48 pm

the way i see it, x-cam is just like our escalation league but with a bunch more rules and a lot more micro managing by robyn. since coming to stoon, it was the league style i've liked the most.

i picked up the planetary empires campaign box and read some of the rules and read the campaign GW ran in the WD. That type of play i think would be quite enjoyable as you get a few little special rules depending on what territories you had as well as you can play any type of game like planetstrike, etc.

To decide playoffs we could just pick the people with the most territories.

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Re: League Play-off Rules

Post  System Commander on Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:14 pm

If I had to make the determination, I would probably agree that the league is ran more friendly than competitively.

I dont mind participating in competitive events, but for the league I definitely want to keep it lighter and more friendly.

Some people may not like that in itself, but the playoffs remain quite competitive. Had had more success running it that way, and from the feedback Ive received, I wouldn't want to shift it into a more competive type of league.

Thats why in the past we've allowed people to change armies, play alternate scenarios, choose between the different variations (Planetstrike, Apocalypse, Cities of Death), and agree on any size points. If people want more competitive games, they can definitely agree to terms ahead of matches, but from an orgranizational stand point, I'll always to keep things in the lighter side.

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Re: League Play-off Rules

Post  Timbo on Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:19 pm

I liked the current league. I could have played myself out of the playoffs too, but I couldn't find anyone to accept a control challenge in the last couple weeks. I sort of like the all-or-nothing aspect of the control game. An early control point is very valuable, so it should be risky to attempt to attain one. Maybe 15 strategic points for each player for a control challenge? I still like the way the recon points work. If a person wants to avoid playing recon games, he will have to play a new guy every 3 games for the recon bonus and/or fully paint his army! A campaign would interest me as well. I picked up a Planetstrike box set too. But I don't think it's a great format for a league. It would be fun for 4-6 guys who know each other and could meet semi-regularly.

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Re: League Play-off Rules

Post  smackman on Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:49 am

Well I am very interested in planetary empires, however I agree with Tim that it isn't something that would work for the league.

However, I would like to continue playing the xcam rules, and making the control point games cheaper would help alot, and maybe don't consider strategic points when determining position for play offs. This way more people would be playing control point games and the only use for strategic points would be to spend them on control challenges since strategic points wouldn't count for standings within the league, it would actually force people who want to play in play offs to gamble for the control points.

To help with having one person not having too many control point advantages maybe cap how many can be used in one game, or don't allow control point advantages in play offs, honestly the benefits of control points, in my opinion, are minimal and don't take away from having a competitive game (although maybe that's because all of my games I either utterly dominate or get completely annihilated). Either way I'd like to see a play off matchup where everyone has at least 1 control point, then get rid of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd ... points advantage and the advantages would be based on your control points (Maybe not the rerolls if people find that unfair, maybe award 10pts or something for each control point). This means there won't be a clear 1st and 2nd etc before the play offs but does that really matter if there's no standings based point bonus?

If theres 8 people and the top 3 all are tied for 5 control points, then each of them get 5 control point advantages (rewarding them in some manner for their hard playing throughout the league) and the bottom 2 are tied with 1 control point they'd only get the one advantage.

Hopefully some of these idea's are useful as I'd really like to see the xcam league be played again, and really like the idea of each game having more meaning to it than points on a leader board.

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Re: League Play-off Rules

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