Combined Firepower

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Combined Firepower

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:40 am

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/668336.page

Sooooooo --- any thoughts?

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:47 am

I'm with Beau. Anyone trying to share stuff like the puretide chip through their whole army is getting a table flipped.

Sharing markerlights and the +1 bs is good enough for free. No army wide twin-linked/ignore cover/monster/tank hunter.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:05 am

I'm inclined to agree, Tom. Rules as written would suggest "single unit" which means any USR's that transfer to a whole unit are shared but I don't think that is the rule as intended. Especially given that they mention markerlights explicitly but nothing else.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Planes on Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:07 am

GW: Hukt awn phawniks wurkt four mi.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:54 am

GingerBalls wrote:I'm inclined to agree, Tom. Rules as written would suggest "single unit" which means any USR's that transfer to a whole unit are shared but I don't think that is the rule as intended. Especially given that they mention markerlights explicitly but nothing else.

Indeed RAW you would share everything with everyone. That is crazy pants as a free upgrade. I mean if you are in the apoc games where you have the new silly formations sure you could probably do it (all the free wargear cult mech, or 12 free transports for marines). But at the regular game level (1500-1850) giving your whole army all those rules and then split firing stuff out to keep the special rules, but target other units (hooray 5 point target locks!) is not cool.

I think as time goes on as a community we have to keep an eye on things like this (same thing for the WK being super undercosted).

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:32 am

Aegwymourn wrote:
GingerBalls wrote:I'm inclined to agree, Tom. Rules as written would suggest "single unit" which means any USR's that transfer to a whole unit are shared but I don't think that is the rule as intended. Especially given that they mention markerlights explicitly but nothing else.

Indeed RAW you would share everything with everyone. That is crazy pants as a free upgrade. I mean if you are in the apoc games where you have the new silly formations sure you could probably do it (all the free wargear cult mech, or 12 free transports for marines). But at the regular game level (1500-1850) giving your whole army all those rules and then split firing stuff out to keep the special rules, but target other units (hooray 5 point target locks!) is not cool.

I think as time goes on as a community we have to keep an eye on things like this (same thing for the WK being super undercosted).

It's not giving it to your whole army, just to the 3 or more units firing at a single target (which I don't think would happen all that much TBH, overkill much?) and I think it stops at split fire anyway because it states you have to be targeting the same unit.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:35 am

Well the RAW interpretation is this.

I select your unit to shoot, i choose my units, now they are all one unit, now I split fire stuff out at other units, but since they are all one unit they keep all the special rules of the parent unit.

which is bonkers, but legal.

edit: the unit must shoot the same target, but target locks specifically allow you to ignore that part for specific models.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:17 pm

The way I read it, as soon as you choose to target another unit you cannot benefit from the buffs of the original unit as you are not selecting the same target.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:25 pm

Which is fine, but the problem with the way the rule is worded one could argue the opposite.

I think sharing markerlights and +1BS is enough reason for it to be good without anything else.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Roland on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:27 pm

Solve Tau STDs, use a condom, for the greater good.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  System Commander on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:37 pm

I think everything looks pretty good, bonuses seem cool, one u it shooting all at one target, very tauey, all of that. For me when things really start to break apart is on the Split Fire. Once a chunk of those units are able to shoot separately with the special rules, it gets into that wild range. Man, I dont even know what that game would even look like.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:52 pm

Are we in agreement that, at the very least, buff-manders original unit still benefits from his USR's?

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Paz on Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:09 pm

Lets just make a local errata, we can all agree I think, that split fire is not an option for this group firing thing.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:54 pm

Paz wrote:Lets just make a local errata, we can all agree I think, that split fire is not an option for this group firing thing.

And USR's are only conveyed to the actual unit the provider is joined to.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:09 pm

GingerBalls wrote:
Paz wrote:Lets just make a local errata, we can all agree I think, that split fire is not an option for this group firing thing.

And USR's are only conveyed to the actual unit the provider is joined to.


I can happily agree with all of that.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  System Commander on Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:35 pm

Ive actually got no problem if buffmander is giving his rules to every unit combining their firepower.. that rule makes sense to me. Its only the split fire that seems to make it wonky.

Because.. suits/riptides/etc can all split fire right?

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:57 pm

System Commander wrote:Ive actually got no problem if buffmander is giving his rules to every unit combining their firepower.. that rule makes sense to me.  Its only the split fire that seems to make it wonky.

Because.. suits/riptides/etc can all split fire right?

That's how I saw it as well but didn't want to ruffle feathers. I don't think it will make as huge a deal as people think either way.

Only models equipped with target locks can split fire.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  System Commander on Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:03 pm

Who can get target locks again? Suits, broadsides, riptides? Marker lights in warriors as well?

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:04 pm

Basically any suit or vehicle or Shas'ui (sergeant).

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:30 pm

/shrug. if we as a community really don't think it'll be that bad we can give it a whirl. (thoughts below)

I admit in a lot of games it probably won't be an issue. However having your buffmander in a unit giving them all twin-linked, ignores cover, and monster/tank hunter, and then any two (or more) units anywhere on the board the same as long as they shoot at is as well is huge.

Part of the downside with the buffmander is only buffing one unit at a time (along with those systems being signature so you can only take one of them in an army). By doing this you are allowing any number of units the same buffs without a downside in addition to the bonus for having the hunter cadre.

In my opinion what is worst is that it really encourages two styles of play. To either not invest that many points in individual targets, or make your deathstar so hard that even if the whole opponents shooting goes into it you won't take casualties.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:32 pm

System Commander wrote:Who can get target locks again? Suits, broadsides, riptides? Marker lights in warriors as well?

to use the markerlights in the current combined shooting they'd have to be the better version on the skyray (cant think of the name) unless they updated them. Part of the markerlight rules prevented them from being used immediately as part of the same units shooting.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Rhaevyn on Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:49 pm

I'm with the split fire thing not giving all the rules.

But, To be honest, most of the time, tau kill whatever they are shooting at, if you want to combine multiple units and only shoot at one thing, i almost see that as a bonus, as it limits my casualties =/

since when did tau not have all the rules all the time for unknown reasons anyway?

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  GingerBalls on Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:13 am

Rhaevyn wrote:I'm with the split fire thing not giving all the rules.

But,   To be honest, most of the time, tau kill whatever they are shooting at, if you want to combine multiple units and only shoot at one thing, i almost see that as a bonus, as it limits my casualties =/

since when did tau not have all the rules all the time for unknown reasons anyway?

This. I feel like you won't be combining 3 units shooting unless you are really desperate. That's, potentially, a LOT of shooting at just one unit. I would pretty much only use it if A) I was going to get assaulted next turn by Pascal's bloodthirtser or 2) I was going to get assaulted next turn by Brian's shining spears star.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  GingerBalls on Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:59 am

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/11/gw-to-faq-the-tau-coordinated-firepower-conundrum.html

Looks like the rule is intended as written, although, I still don't think it should extend to models with target locks. If all units are shooting at the same target then they share special rules.

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Re: Combined Firepower

Post  Paz on Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:25 pm

Doesn't split fire only allow 1 model to fire at something else?

So even with target locks only one model could shoot at something, since it counts as 1 unit?

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Re: Combined Firepower

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