how to break the CommComp!

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Re: how to break the CommComp!

Post  Matthew G on Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:25 pm

Roland wrote:Things I like about it, and a few observations.

1) a common scale: i can rate something 1-10 and you can do likewise but they may never line up. When one of us says that list is a 17/20 on Comm Comp we realize what that should be.

2) We have to realize this was also intended to shape the game. There is a reason certain things may be "allowed" but are prohibitively expensive.

3) Anyone familiar with saber-metrics and baseball? This is one way to do it, like Wins Above Replacement (WAR) in baseball. Lots of people don't like WAR because you can't figure it out in your head, and it destroys some preconceived notions (like the value of relievers). That said it can't be the only metric. Otherwise you use it like a drunk uses a lamppost (for support, not illumination).

4) You have to at least TRY to use it in the manner intended. I'm on Weight Watchers. By their points cost, technically I can eat nothing but a box of fudgesicles and I should be ok. 2 pts each, 24 in a box, I get 50 a day . I'm still 2 points under! But we all know that's not what they intended. In the example above, yes, I can take 3 Land Raiders in the Spearhead. It's 15 points if I do. It's pretty obvious they don't want you taking it. But you can if you really really want to. That said, when it doesn't work, you can't blame the system.

I like this statement Beau... It's a very real life way of comparing a game system to something real.

Also, I too just like the bulk of people here it seems, have some issue with how they did their credit assignments to certain units/rules. But unless we go to a NEW THREAD and really start to hammer out the inconsistencies as they pertain to OUR meta, then just do what the document says, and stop complaining. This is all for the tournament coming up, it's not hard coded to be done forever (oh god i hope it doesn't). It's meant to make you go different routes with how you build your list.

Now, I may offer a bit to "step it up a notch", rather than have it exactly as written, max the comp out at 8, not 16 as per a normal medium game. This way you don't get those people taking 15-16 credit lists to the tournament and getting paired to battle 0-2 credit point lists. That's a gross difference of "power"; now it may not show right away, and for all I know the extra composition points scored for that low list might help them out, but a 16 credit list (maxed) going to a tournament and going 3-0, will it honestly fall to the side against a 0-2 credit list that goes 1-2, or at probably best 2-1.....? I'm not the best at the math-hammering, so just asking that out there....

Otherwise, I am keen to just follow the document and hope I don't get paired against people running high credit lists.

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Re: how to break the CommComp!

Post  dusktiger on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:11 pm

I think most of the lists everyone's considering fielding are enevitably going to fall within 1-5 just because every list is going to score at least one point unless your playing to the comp chart. This threads mainly been a means of showing how easy it is to break past the limit with stuff that normally wouldn't make people cringe.

We all expected taking multiple LoWs, especially super heavies would do it, but this initial eldar list is an example of how you could do it without a single one of those in the list. After all, that's a 17 point list and it's not fielding a single D weapon, MC, GC, or janky spell combo. And that's what we'd normally expect from eldar that would break the limit.

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Re: how to break the CommComp!

Post  Spamus Eatus on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:55 pm

But....that list you built IS making us all cringe.  And with good reason.  It's very small model count, yes,  but absolutely murderous if played right.  Some armies can't even touch it.  My tyranids are utterly screwed, for instance.  I got nothing, you win.

When you look at units individually in a vacuum, like the Farseer, things seem on the weak side.  This is one of those armies that is greater than the sum of its parts, the comcomp seeks to address that.  Combining the various benefits and abilities and psychic powers that units have in this list allows those squads to delete entire enemy squads per turn and not risk any return fire back.  If they're not doing that, they are pouncing on every objective on the table.  It's a list designed to win tournament games.  Which is why it's worth that many comp points.

Now, on the day of the tourney, you can totally bring this and play it.  However, you will pretty much need to get solid victories on all of your games and have a good paint score in order to place well.  It's actually a pretty clever system, when you look at things at large scale.  The idea is NOT to shoot for zero credits, but to keep it at a dull roar.  Looking closer at it, I feel the 0-20 credits is not a linear scale, rather it should be thought as an exponential growth curve.  Things are fine until a critical point is reached and then suddenly a player is in "that guy" territory.  Here is a visual example I randomly pulled from the internet.  





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Re: how to break the CommComp!

Post  Roland on Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:32 pm

I think you are both right to a degree.

Mike-you're absolutely correct. You CAN still go over with taking Destroyer weapons or superheavys or any of that. This list DOES have some jankiness with the all HW jetbikes. But its not just this list. My Necrons waiting to be built are a 20. And the jankiest thing is a DLord and some Wraiths. Even if I do my alternate build (replace the wraiths with Destroyers) its STILL very high.

This in and of itself isn't bad. I don't think everyone should aim for the low end. This attempts to balance all this out. That Eldar list, or my Cron list or anything else in that level, is giving up a win and a half on the extreme end of things. And it's a point at which we can say "No Beau, just don't".

Ben- you're more correct than you know. Look at tourney points awarded vs Credits. Declining trend as you go up. That is you are "penalized" more for the 5 point jump from 10 to 15 than from 5 to 10.


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