54th Inf

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54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:40 pm

I'm about to go all-out technical with this list so you my want your military to civ dictionary handy. Fnished it
Company Command Squad for Alpha company- 77pts
CO- flak AR, blot pistol(2pts), power sword(15pts), refractor field, frag gren
4x Vets- flak AR, laspistol, chain sword, frag gren


Inf plat 1 645pts
inf plat com-30
Jr Officer- flak AR, laspistol, chain sword, frag gren
4x GM- flak AR, Lasgun, Frag gren

inf squads 1-3 50pts each 150 tot
sgt-flak AR, laspistol, chain sword, frag gren
9 guardsmen- flak AR, lasguns, frag gren

inf squads 4-5 70pts each 140 tot
sgt-flak AR, laspistol, chain sword, frag gren, melta bombs(5pts)
6 guardmen- flak AR, lasguns, frag gren
1 guardmen-flak ar, hotshot volley gun(10pts), frag gren
1 heavy wep squad- heavy blotter(10pts), Lasgun, frak AR, frag gren

heavy wep squad 1 55pts
3x mortors 5pts each- flak AR, Lasgun, frag gren

heavy wep squad 2 75pts
3x autocans 10pts each - flak AR, Lasgun, frag gren

spec wep squads 1-3 65pts each 195 tot
3x guardsmen- Lasgun, flak ar, frag gren
2x guardsmen- hotshot volley (10pts each)- flak AR, Lasgun, frag gren
1 plasma gunner plasma gun (15pts)- flak AR, Lasgun, frag gren


Inf plat 2 630pts
inf plat com-30
Jr Officer- flak AR, laspistol, chain sword, frag gren
4x GM- flak AR, Lasgun, Frag gren

inf squads 1-5 50pts each 250 tot
sgt-flak AR, laspistol, chain sword, frag gren
9 guardsmen- flak AR, lasguns, frag gren

Heavy wep squad 1 55pts
3x mortors 5pts each- flak AR, Lasgun, frag gren

heavy wep squad 2 100pts
3x missal lanchers 15pts each-flak ar, Lasgun frag gren, flakk missals 10pts

spec wep squads 1-3 65pts each 195 tot
3x guardsmen- Lasgun, flak ar, frag gren
2x guardsmen- hotshot volley (10pts each)- flak AR, Lasgun, frag gren
1 plasma gunner plasma gun (15pts)- flak AR, Lasgun, frag gren

BATTLION SUPORT

scout sentinel Squadron 40pts
1 x Scout sent- autocan(5pts)

LMR EXECUTIONER Squadren 465pts
3x LMR Executioner tanks- heavy blotter, searchlight, smoke lanchers, executioner plasma can 155pts each

Basilisk battery 125pts
Heavy bolter, searchlight, smoke lanuncher,earthshaker cannon


Last edited by Dom.0 on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  ShadowDisco on Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:23 pm

I would recommend no flk AR on your heavy weapon teams they are more placed behind the infantry to support thier advance with out being close to the enemy. In my opinion

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  ShadowDisco on Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:24 pm

And some anti flier stuff you may need

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:12 pm

Flak ar is the 5+ crap and my only option for inf plat units and the lanchers have flakk missals witch have sky fire.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  judchic on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:24 am

you can make your lists a bit easier to read by just posting gear you buy for them.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:35 am

The bought gear has the pts value next to it
Ie the plasma gun
Ie thescot sent auto can
Cant blame you for being confused tho the guard codex in complex too start with. I mean i olny have 2 troop slots filled but it dosent look that way

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Spamus Eatus on Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:15 am

It's more that the list is going into extreme detail that you just don't need to have, there's much easier ways to make a list for example:

inf squads 4-5 70pts each 140 tot
sgt-flak AR, laspistol, chain sword, frag gren, melta bombs(5pts)
6 guardmen- flak AR, lasguns, frag gren
1 guardmen-flak ar, hotshot volley gun(10pts), frag gren
1 heavy wep squad- heavy blotter(10pts), Lasgun, frak AR, frag gren

Becomes:

Guardsman Squad 70
Sergeant W/ meltabombs
Hotshot Volleygun, Heavy Bolter Team

Guardsman Squad 70
Sergeant W/ meltabombs
Hotshot Volleygun, Heavy Bolter Team


Tells us exactly what is needed without tons of extra stuff. Everybody should know what the basic equipment of a guardsman is, there's no need to tell us "flak armour, lasgun, frag grenades" on every line. Also saves you a ton of extra typing.


Now, onto the actual list:
In a 2000 point game, you're going to have some serious problems getting anything done. It's massive, yet doesn't really have any meaningful firepower. You simply have too many warm bodies and not enough special weapons. Looking at this list you have no real way of dealing with heavy vehicles OR spammed light armor. Same for fliers. I guarantee the 3 flakk missiles will not get the job done. Nothing terribly wrong with the executioners, but since they are your only vehicles and have the meanest weapons in the entire list, they will get focused down very quickly by all the enemy anti tank guns. With sooooo many models, your turns will end up taking a long, long time, in addition to making it difficult to move your squads around in a smart way. 7th edition is a different game, you really need a way to get your squads onto objectives, and remove the enemies from theirs. I'm not super familiar with IG list building, but this feels like it needs some serious fixes. I really suggest you work on some smaller lists for smaller games to get 7th down first.



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Re: 54th Inf

Post  dusktiger on Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:03 am

well first of all, you can't take hotshot volley guns. period. if you read them in your special weapons list, there's a footnote number 2 on them, which states that option is only available to Tempestus Scions squads only. guard cant have them.

and as ben pointed out, you don't need to type out every wargear option they come with by default; if you didnt put any optional stuff on them, just write the name of the squad, and move on.  only detail wargear that was an optional purchase.

below is an example of how you should post your lists in a clean streamlined way that's fast and easy to read.  it's the standardized method that people submit their lists to tournaments as well, by the way, so it's worth learning to write your lists this way.

note: since you cant have hotshot volley guns, i replaced them all with meltaguns instead because they cost the same.

2000 Pts - Codex: Astra Militarum Roster
Total Roster Cost: 2021

HQ Slots (6#, 76 pts)
  Alpha Company Command Squad, 76 pts
     4 Veterans, 24 pts
     1 Company Commander, 52 pts = (Bolt Pistol 1 + Power Weapon 15)

Troop Slots (158#, 1315 pts)
   Infantry Platoon 1, 650 pts
     5 Platoon Command Squad, 30 pts
     10 Infantry Squad 1, 50 pts
     10 Infantry Squad 2, 50 pts
     10 Infantry Squad 3, 50 pts
     10 Infantry Squad 4, 70 pts
        Meltagun 10pts
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 20 pts = (Heavy Bolter 10)
     10 Infantry Squad 5, 70 pts
        Meltagun 10pts
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 20 pts = (Heavy Bolter 10)
     Heavy Weapons Squad 1, 60pts
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 20 pts = (Mortar 5)
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 20 pts = (Mortar 5)
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 20 pts = (Mortar 5)
     Heavy Weapons Squad 2, 75 pts
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 25 pts = (Autocannon 10)
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 25 pts = (Autocannon 10)
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 25 pts = (Autocannon 10)
     Special Weapons Squad 1,
        6 Guardsman, 75 pts = (Plasma gun x3 45)
     Special Weapons Squad 2,
        6 Guardsman, 75 pts = (Plasma gun x3 45)
     Special Weapons Squad 3,
        6 Guardsman, 75 pts = (Plasma gun x3 45)

  Infantry Platoon 2, 665 pts
     5 Platoon Command Squad, 30 pts
     10 Infantry Squad 1, 50 pts
     10 Infantry Squad 2, 50 pts
     10 Infantry Squad 3, 50 pts
     10 Infantry Squad 4, 50 pts
     10 Infantry Squad 5, 50 pts
     Heavy Weapons Squad 1, 100pts
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 40 pts = (Missile Launcher 15 + Flakk Missiles (for Missile Launcher) 10)
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 30 pts = (Missile Launcher 15)
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 30 pts = (Missile Launcher 15)
     Heavy Weapons Squad 2, 60pts
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 20 pts = (Mortar 5)
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 20 pts = (Mortar 5)
        1 Heavy Weapons Team, 20 pts = (Mortar 5)
     Special Weapons Squad 1,
        6 Guardsman, 75 pts = (Plasma gun x3 45)
     Special Weapons Squad 2,
        6 Guardsman, 75 pts = (Plasma gun x3 45)
     Special Weapons Squad 3,
        6 Guardsman, 75 pts = (Plasma gun x3 45)

Fast Attack Slots (2#, 40 pts)
  Scout Sentinel Squadron,
     1 Scout Sentinel, 40 pts = (Autocannon 5)

Heavy Support Slots (6#, 590 pts)
  Basilisk Battery, 125pts
     1 Basilisk, 125 pts
  Leman Russ Squadron, 465pts
     1 Leman Russ Executioner, 155 pts
     1 Leman Russ Executioner, 155 pts
     1 Leman Russ Executioner, 155 pts

as you can see, much more streamlined, much easier to read.  the only wargear i typed was the purchased/optional stuff.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:18 am

If this was the old guard codex i would argree with you however inf blobs are proveing to be the best way to go for guard armies. Fire power in numbers is idea, and il admit if a landradier shows up im kinda screwed. How ever i can over whelm armies with costly units like grey knights i mean have alot of guns and they have better aim then orks.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:20 am

Shit complety missed that footnoot.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  dusktiger on Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:19 am

Dom.0 wrote:If this was the old guard codex i would argree with you however inf blobs are proveing to be the best way to go for guard armies. Fire power in numbers is idea, and il admit if a landradier shows up im kinda screwed. How ever i can over whelm armies with costly units like grey knights i mean have alot of guns and they have better aim then orks.

no, he's actually right; playing a big blob on the board wont work anymore for any of the books. If you're playing a Maelstrom of War mission, your fucked. more people are starting to choose these missions because you cant power game your way through them like the normal ones; you need a balanced, semi mobile list. you have 6 objectives on the table and the objective cards you pick every turn require you to be able to quickly grabs any of these each turn rather than hold them all game. there's also multiple cards for being in combat, challenging another character with one of yours, and so on. if you play a stationary gunline force, you're going to be out maneuvered and out played by everyone you play against, every time. drop a bunch of those extra squads and put them in chimeras and taurox or you'll have a hard time winning any games in 7th.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:53 am

Just looking at the maelstrom mission types to see what your on about and i dont see it. What you say ishould do is mech vets bu the codex puts strangth in large inf of foot with a few suports. Your not veiwing it from a guard point of veiw.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Matthew G on Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:14 am

Dom.0 wrote:Just looking at the maelstrom mission types to see what your on about and i dont see it. What you say ishould do is mech vets bu the codex puts strangth in large inf of foot with a few suports. Your not veiwing it from a guard point of veiw.

No point arguing to try and convince him. Let him bring his massive blobs to the table and let him learn for himself.
Dom just don't be all mad when you aren't winning. For all we know this list might actually perform ok. Never know. Just I feel bad for your opponent as you will be taking very long turns. Allot a great deal of time to your games...
Personally I won't want to play against it ever. I like having more than 2 turns in 3 hours

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:16 am

You do know me loseing are old friends right

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  dusktiger on Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:21 am

"guard point of view" is the same as ork/necron/tyranid point of view. all of these books can do the same thing a list of mainly infantry can do. and they dont work when you have to rush across a 6 foot table for a random objective. you might be able to sit on 2, possibly 3 at best, but if you keep pulling cards for the other objectives further away from you, you'll never win those VP and you'll still lose. you might kill stuff, sure; but if your not playing kill points, that means nothing when your opponent is zipping across the table claiming multiple objectives every turn and racking up points from the cards. out of 36 cards, your gunline will only manage to be capable of succeeding in pulling off 8. what about the other 28 cards? you're drawing them from a shuffled deck; there's no guarantee you're going to get those 8. a more mobile force will be able to succeed in grabbing more of the 36 cards per turn.

do remember, we've been playing these missions since 7th released and we've seen first hand gunlines don't work anymore. elite low model count armies dont work. you need a balanced, mobile force with an even mixture of troops, fast moving vehicles, tanks, and support units/weapons to help them control the board. parking your ass in one corner of the table and shooting lasguns at someone, and only being able to move 6" a turn isn't going to help you when you need to be able to clear sections of table in a single turn up to 12...18...24 inches away from where you're currently standing.

you can play the gunline if you want, but don't expect to win much; you're going to lose more games than you win against another player who keeps his forces mobile with transports and fast moving choices.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:18 am

dusktiger wrote:they dont work when you have to rush across a 6 foot table for a random objective
And thats what you dont under stand i dont whant too rush, i want too xupress and advance.if i wanted to rush id take a storm trooper valkie formation witch costs alot witch causes other issues

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Planes on Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:31 am

Look at it this way: there are six objectives on the table, with three likely in your half of the table, and three in the other half. If all the cards you draw are for the other side of the table (not improbable), then those are points you can't score, and you can only flush away dead cards so fast. Having your deployment zone locked down is all well and good, but it does very little to win you the game.

I'd recommend, in addition to getting transports into the list, is look at some Hellhounds. They still have the Fast sub-type, yes? They're decent for crossing the board and forcing enemies off of their objectives as I understand.

Mobility is key, though. I my match verses Mark this weekend I lost 3-9 because he was able to lock down the objectives and I wasn't mobile enough to challenge him.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:08 pm

Well when your polite and put it like that mobility makes sence. But things are coplex for guard i can do mech vets but if do ill lose the fire power of inf plats a smaller inf plat with one vet squad might work if i take a ST formation but ill have to ditch the tanks and arty aswell but at the end of every list is a large amount of inf. also guard is the only army that.can take nothing but inf and fight anything that comes thir way.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  dusktiger on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:24 pm

No ones telling you to drop the platoons for veterans In Transports. You can toss the platoons into transports too. We're saying don't max out both platoons and not give anyone transports. Cut out a pair of infantry squads and a special weapon squad in both platoons and you should have the points to put the rest in transports and then your good to go. That alone will greatly improve your list's chances of taking objectives across the table. Guard benefit from spamming lots of cheap stuff, so keeping the platoons and just trimming down their size to afford chimera or taurox for each remaining squad is all you need to do. The heavy support squads won't need transports either, so they can stay as they are and sit in your home objectives

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Roland on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:27 pm

I'd go 3x squads in each platoon, 2 with Chinera, and drop the arty for a Valk to scoot those Special weapons squads into position.

You have a lot of firepower, but if the enemy is 24" away from you, a lot of it is wasted.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Roland on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Sonthing like

*= in a chimera

Company Command sqd*

Platoon cmd sqd*
Inf sqd*
Inf sqd*
Inf sad*

Vet sad*

HW sqd
HW sqd
SW sqd
SW sqd

Valk

Medusa, exec or manticores to taste.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:37 pm

one issue inf plats cant take dedicated transport they can mount but not start in

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Roland on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:41 pm

Infantry sqds can take a taurox or chimera

SW sqds would ride in a valk. Anyone can start in those.

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:43 pm

yea just grabbed my codex to double check that they must have changed it couldn't do that with the old codex

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Re: 54th Inf

Post  Dom.0 on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:46 pm

yea only the heavy weapons and spec weps squads cant take transports so they will need vendettas or velks witch will cause cost isuses

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Re: 54th Inf

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