Which Canoptek is superior?

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Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Muskwacis on Sat May 03, 2014 12:56 pm

I've been looking around for some of my heavier units that are not vehicle base, and I have no idea if these would be considered vehicles BUT. I'm trying to decide which would be better in an all round battle. We have

1. NECRON CANOPTEK TOMB STALKER
2. NECRON CANOPTEK TOMB SENTINEL
3. NECRON CANOPTEK ACANTHRITES
4. And of course your spiders.

Any necron players and those experienced in fighting against these units have any insight?

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Paz on Sat May 03, 2014 1:29 pm

Well, all three are quite different. They're all forge world units first off, so a little different than regular 40k.
The acanthrites and close range shooty and melee jump infantry if memory serves.
The stalker is a monstrous creature that had good cc and shooting
The sentinel is more close range shooting, I think it has a beam of exile.
The stalker and sentinel fulfill an area of the crons they don't really have in the current codex: huge monstrous creatures that will mash stuff up in cc.
The acanthrites are okay, but I think wraiths are just a little better for their points

Plus you need the forgeworld figs to play these units. So higher cost.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Muskwacis on Sat May 03, 2014 1:42 pm

Am I not able to play Forgeworld units in a game or tourny unless allowed?

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Lore Weaver on Sat May 03, 2014 2:55 pm

Muskwacis wrote:Am I not able to play Forgeworld units in a game or tourny unless allowed?

Most of the time, forgeworld is allowed. Very infrequently is it not.

In my personal opinion (I know Tom will disagree with me though), the base rule book stuff is far superior.

Wraiths... Wraiths... Wraiths... They're *Sooooo gooood*

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Spamus Eatus on Sat May 03, 2014 3:39 pm

For the most part we're pretty pro-FW in these parts, so no big worries there. Just wanna make sure to bring the rules for the particular units so people aren't caught off guard. Aside from that, you will want to look at the rest of your army and decide which killbots fit in better, as they perform different jobs.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Paz on Sat May 03, 2014 4:38 pm

Also, best to have the fw fig if you wanna play the unit. Fw is order only, dragons den doesn't support it. But guys here do mass orders now and then to reduce shipping cost Smile

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Muskwacis on Sat May 03, 2014 6:30 pm

Another question here, Deathmarks. You deploy your reserves, I get to insta deep strike them and shoot on your turn. There seems to be a lot of confusion on this when we see in sixth edition (From what I've heard) there are more abilities that allow one to shoot on the opponent's turn, and people transitioning from 5th to 6th do not like this ability the necron deathmarks have. The compromise seems to be "Western showdown" They both deploy and they both attack who they desire but wounds are not tallied until the next turn (if for example my deathmarks shoot up your space marines and you choose to attack something else, the damage ((If any)) wouldn't be tallied over until my turn, allowing them to do full damage for the remainder of the opponent's turn.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Paz on Sat May 03, 2014 6:36 pm

Deathmarks cannot fire on the turn they come in using their special rule. They only ds, they can't even run. The rule specifically says they can ds, not that they can shoot or do anything else. Very situational ability, most ppl end up teleporting in deathmarks with a despair cryptek or in a night scythe.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Muskwacis on Sun May 04, 2014 12:02 am

Has their been confirmation about it's rules?

Another source says otherwise going back from the codex of the necrons to the big book of rules.

Check out Rule Debates Episode 3 - Can Necron Deathmarks Fire In Their Opponents Turn? on Youtube. Should be under Miniwar gaming where they jump back and forth between the codex and the master rule book.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Planes on Sun May 04, 2014 1:47 am

My name has been invoked, and so I appear. I'm a big fan of a lot of the FW necron units as they help to round things out and afford different play styles (go go melee crons!), but the base book is plenty fine too. And as someone who uses deathmarks extensively, I can confirm that their alternate deployment method is simply that and nothing more. The miniwar gaming video to which you reffer was dealing by in large to speculation as to RAI with no real RAW support to back it up. I don't use that deployment method much any more, but I feel that it is mostly meant to let you get to a "close but secure location" so you can move 6" and murder something on your following turn, but not be in line of sight when they bomph in. I find that a despair/eternity combo does better at that over all, though.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Muskwacis on Sun May 04, 2014 2:00 am

Right now my army consists of the following

1. A box of Warriors
2. 5 Immortals Gauss Blasters (plan on getting a squad of both Deathmarks, and telsa carbine users.)
3. A Triarch
4. A Battlebarge
5. Canoptyk Wraiths (Plan on getting a second squad)
6. Triarch Praetorians
7. A Doomscythe


When I first purchased everything but the praetorians and the C. Wraiths I think I was told my army was 500+ to 600ish? Point wise.

I saw a list, now I'm being nooby and assuming that this is a very range based army, with a few bruisers.

HQ:
1 Overlord
1 Destroyer Lord
Royal Court with 3 Crypteks

Elite:
5 Deathmarks
5 Lychguards with Hyperphase Swords & Dispersion Shields
5 Triarch Praetorians with Voidblades & Particle Casters

Troops:
20 Warriors
5 Immortals, with Gauss Blasters
5 Immortals with Tesla Carbines

Fast Attack:
2 Destroyers

Heavy Support:
1 Annihilation Barge

--------

I am interested in getting a monolith onto the field, and another cryptek wraith squad, and some more another squad of immortals with telsa carbines. Anyone know what my points would be at with and with out these last two editions, and if the monolith is good? I still don't know what kind of Necron lord/leader would work best for this build. I want something where yes we will shoot you from range, but you try to charge me and I'll have units that will rip you apart in melee.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun May 04, 2014 9:47 am

I would classify a monolith as "fun", not "good". (Look at that grammatically correct usage of quotes there! *flex*)

Destroyer Lords are amazing. Best HQ is the book, IMO. Go have a gander at the 1500 pt list I'm taking to Brandon.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Paz on Sun May 04, 2014 12:18 pm

As Planes said, big no-no on the DS off turn shooting. ignore miniwargaming, those guys aren't the best at using rules correctly. Me and planes have been playing crons for quite a while, I can tell you that I rarely if ever use that specific ability for that unit.
Deathmarks work reeaaally good with a despair cryptek, and here''s why: Abyssal staff combined with hunters from hyperspace rule. Since the death-marks can 'mark' a target, making all hits (cc and shooty) against that unit with the death-mark squad on a 2+, the abyssal staff (an ap2 flamer) now becomes suuuper good (its 'okay' regularly, s8 against ld). Slap those bitches in a nightscythe, and you will destroy face. Now... people might call cheese on ya a bit as well, this is a deletion unit. But at least you know you have that option.

I find immortals only really survive in larger, 10 man squads. with a resorb, you will have some really tough units, and gauss is nice to crack open vehicles. Plus ap4 on those big boys, good for cutting down guard, tau, lots of units with 4+ or worse.

monolith- meh. I had one, kinda shitty to tell you the truth. tough, since there isn't a whole lot of s10 on the field (land raiders and mono's laugh at s7, the prevalent weapon right now), but for 200 pts, it doesn't put out that much damage, compared with, say, the almighty doomscythe.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Planes on Sun May 04, 2014 3:09 pm

The Monolith is very much a utility brick, and you have to plan to use it as a delivery method more so than killing system. It's forgeworld cousin, the Tesseract Ark, is what more or less happens when you trade in all that utility for more gun and a 5++. 250 points and comes with some tesla cannons and a gun with a number of firing modes, including the lovely triple tap plasma cannon.

With the double cryptek method on the deathmarks, you can take a Harbinger of Despair with a shroud to let them deep strike around every turn, with the Harbinger of Eternity bearing a chronometron to give you some amount of accuracy on the deepstrikes. Maybe not as points efficient as the nightscythe, but it's certainly fun and can let you bounce all over the field the whole game.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Muskwacis on Sun May 04, 2014 5:41 pm

Planes wrote:The Monolith is very much a utility brick, and you have to plan to use it as a delivery method more so than killing system.  It's forgeworld cousin, the Tesseract Ark, is what more or less happens when you trade in all that utility for more gun and a 5++.  250 points and comes with some tesla cannons and a gun with a number of firing modes, including the lovely triple tap plasma cannon.

With the double cryptek method on the deathmarks, you can take a Harbinger of Despair with a shroud to let them deep strike around every turn, with the Harbinger of Eternity bearing a chronometron to give you some amount of accuracy on the deepstrikes.  Maybe not as points efficient as the nightscythe, but it's certainly fun and can let you bounce all over the field the whole game.

Are you able to have both harbingers or just one?  Also, if you deepstrike onto an enemy actually landing on them what's their saves vs?

Also other than a Necron Overlord, what other bad ass should I field?

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Muskwacis on Sun May 04, 2014 5:52 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:I would classify a monolith as "fun", not "good".   (Look at that grammatically correct usage of quotes there! *flex*)

Destroyer Lords are amazing.  Best HQ is the book, IMO.  Go have a gander at the 1500 pt list I'm taking to Brandon.

Also I should state I'm two and a half hours out of the way and if Brandon works tat the store I likely won't be there until end of the month.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Planes on Sun May 04, 2014 6:05 pm

If you have two royal courts, you can have one member from each attached to a squad. If you land on the enemy with the deepstrike, then that's a mishap and you have to roll on the appropriate table. Depending on if you've used the chronometron or not, you could use it to reroll the mishap table.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Muskwacis on Sun May 04, 2014 6:39 pm

What makes up a royal court?

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Planes on Sun May 04, 2014 6:52 pm

Whenever you take an overlord (or named overlord) you can take a royal court composed to 0-5 lords and 0-5 crypteks. Most of your infantry squads can receive one individual from a royal court as a vet to lead them.

Common mixes are a lord with an orb in a warrior blob, a despairtek in with deathmarks, a stormtek with almost anything in a nightscythe.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Muskwacis on Sun May 04, 2014 8:52 pm

So if I had a royal court of immortals I would... split one immortal to each of my squads and what would that do?

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Paz on Sun May 04, 2014 9:45 pm

Royal courts are specifically lords and crypteks, outlined in your codex.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Planes on Sun May 04, 2014 10:40 pm

For example, you could take Imotekh and a generic Overlord, and each could take a Royal Court. You could take one member from each court and attach it to the squad of Immortals, and have the final squad composition be 10 Immortals, a Lord, and a Cryptek, though there are other ways you could do it.

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  System Commander on Sun May 04, 2014 10:58 pm

Have you picked up the necron book yet? That should be prioirty number 1 !

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Muskwacis on Sun May 04, 2014 11:09 pm

I have the Necron codex, but I only learn via hands on rather then through the text.  *Eyes his shopping cart warily from GW.*

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

Post  Muskwacis on Mon May 05, 2014 10:23 pm

What's the difference between elite infantry and non elite?

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Re: Which Canoptek is superior?

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