Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

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Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  dusktiger on Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:47 pm

so they released these new rules this week.  the achilles is a 30k version of the existing achilles, with a few changes that i think make it a much better tank.

compared to the original, its mainly the same with the following changes:

it gained a new special rule called Galvanic Traction Drive that makes the achilles re-roll failed dangerous terrain tests. oddly worded though, says it "forces" the tank to do this. but whatever, the writers are british.

they changed out the ferromantic plating with a revised rule called Enhanced Ferromantic Rites.  it still ignores the special rules for Lance and Melta weapons, but in addition, it also nerfs the AP bonus for penetration rolls.  they worded the explanation weird, but the example they give of how it works clarifies it up.  in canadian english, it works as thus; AP 1 becomes AP 2, AP 2 becomes AP 3 before determining bonuses to the armour penetration rolls.

in terms of its weapon loadout, the heresy version fields Two sponson-mounted twin-linked volkite culverins, and can swap these for multi meltas for free.  it also comes with a Quad Mortar with frag and shatter shells instead of the usual thunderfire cannon.
Quad Mortar:
Frag Shell: 12 to 60" range, Str 5, AP 5, Heavy 4, Barrage, 3" blast, shell shock
Shatter Shell: 36" range, str 8, ap 3, heavy 4, Sunder


the Kharybdis Assault Claw is interesting.
its 260 pts base.
Armour 12 all sides, 5 HP, BS 4.
type Flyer/Transport/Hover
comes with 5 Storm Launchers, a Melta-Ram, and Frag Assault launchers.
Assault Vehicle, Drop pod Assault, Inertial Guidance System, Independent Machine Spirits, Heat Blast.
20 model capacity.
heavy slot for both a 30k army, AND, a codex: chaos marines army
chaos marines can toss a dread, helbrute, or a 20 man squad into it.

here's the special rules broken down:
initially, it enters play like a normal drop pod, but instead of becomming immobile, after it arrives it is treated as a flyer in hover mode, and can switch out of hover mode once your next move phase begins.

Independent Machine Spirits allows each weapon on it to choose a different target.

Melta-ram Although a Flyer, the Kharybdis may conduct Ram attacks as if it were a Tank while using Hover mode. It may not, however, Ram other Flyers or make such an attack on any turn in which it arrives from reserve. It also may not conduct a Ram on any turn on which it embarks or disembarks models or uses its Heat Blast attack.
Heat Blast has 2 modes:
Heat Blast (Deep Strike):Immediately after the model lands, measure a radius of 3"+D3" horizontally outwards from its main hull (do not count any landing struts, etc). All models caught in the blast suffer a Str 6 AP 5 hit with no cover saves. Vehicles are struck on their weakest Armour value. This is counted as a flamer-based attack.

Heat Blast (Fire Sweep):If the controlling player wishes, any unit the model passes directly over (i.e., falls directly under its hull during its Movement phase) suffers D6 Str 5 AP 5 hits with no cover saves. Vehicles are struck on their weakest Armour value. This is counted as a flamer-based attack. Hits from this attack are distributed across a unit as the player suffering the attack wishes. Roll a D6 each time this attack is inflicted. On a result of a 1, the Drop Pod itself suffers a penetrating hit.

finally, the 5 storm launchers are:  24" range, Str 6, AP 5, Heavy 2, Pinning, Twin-linked

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  Planes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:57 pm

I can see many Chaos players rejoycing about the new assault pod. Can't smuggle the flesh-metal folk into it though? Boo.

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  System Commander on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:50 pm

I was checking out the rules earlier today and it really isnt that bad.. but, 260 points for is alot.
Beyond that.. the kit is also expensive.

Its still interesting though.. id be tempted to maybe make one. Im not against.. but.im not completly for it. The storm eagle seems better to me for some reason.. ?

Its just really hard to imagine a 260 pod with another 200-300 points of berserkers and maybe kharne or a lord all in one easy to kill can.

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  System Commander on Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:52 pm

I have to check the rules again.. i ddnt see this on first glance but can they take a dirge caster? That would help alot.

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  dusktiger on Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:14 pm

nope, no dirge casters. zero optional wargear.  still, they're the only AV 12 flyer with 5 HPs right now, and have their own version of vector strike for whenever they fly over enemy units without the intent of disgorging infantry that turn.  and despite the price, so long as you keep an odd number of pods in your army list, these are guaranteed to enter the board on the first turn. 

i think for the overall package you get of rules and abilities, plus its durability, 260pts is reasonable for it since that's still an experimental datasheet.  they might make it better, or drop the points, if they get enough feedback that its underperforming for 260pts.

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  Planes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:25 pm

While 20 Berzerkers/19 Berzerkers + Kharn seems like the obvious payload for this device, I'm starting to warm up to the idea of 20 Noise Marines with Sonic Blasters just disgorging from this thing in the enemy deployment zone turn one.  Only Str 4 (baring psychic support), but the sheer volume (heh, "volume") of shots combined with ignores cover and likely coming from a side where the squad tanks aren't sitting, it could be pretty effective.  And with the FAQ, I think you could even slip 3 Blast Masters into that mess.  Expensive as all get-out, yes, especially if you go for psyker support, but effective, I'd think.

Edit -- This seems somewhat applicable, especially if you throw VotLW on to the squad in question.


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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  System Commander on Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:32 pm

The only thing that scares me is intercepting guns.. one quad gun can take ya down Sad

Its neat.. i like the options it.gives but i think id still like a cheap chaos drop pod.

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  Roland on Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:37 pm

A quad gun would have a devil of a time with that. Youd average .5 glances and.5 pens per quad gun.

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  System Commander on Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:49 pm

Oh.. i know. Ive only had the heldrake die once outright to a quad.. but, the chance it can happen or get blown out the sky easily by a riptide makes me nervous.

l have to think about it some more.. Smile

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:53 pm

interceptors don't kill you until the end of the movement phase.... long after you're now Hovering flyer has disgorged its Fell Cargo into your enemies backfield on turn 1.

I'm on the fence. this thing has all the rules i want in a chaos pod, but it also has a whole bunch of extraneos BS that nobody cares about. Ramming? meh, str 5 guns? meh, low strength impact hits? meh.

The difference between this and the Storm eagle is drop pod assault. it drops down turn one and your guys are in combat on turn two. With the storm eagle, your assaulting turn three(hopefully), but you spend a turn in the sky waiting to get shot down and losing the entire squad. so far i'm 50/50 with the storm eagle, 2 games, it delivered its cargo and decimated. 2 games, it got shot down during my opponents turn and all the models take a str 10 ap1 hit....

260 points and $200 is a lot to pay.

like Robyn i doubt i would buy one, might build one.

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  Planes on Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:57 pm

A Drop Pod kit and a Triarc Stalker kit would give you everything you'd need to build it, in plastic, for less. You even get a Necron in a Prof X hover chair when you're done, too!

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  System Commander on Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:37 pm

Ahh yeah, i knew i wasnt thinking something through. Guranteeing a drop on turn 1 is intriguing.

If only a dirge caster!

Hmm... still, berserkers aside i like being able to deep strike in some khorne terminators reliably and on turn 1. So the assault claw can drop pod assault in on turn 1.. drop off its dudes.. but, those can onky shoot rigbt.. no assaulting. Sorry.. havent had the chance to go check the rules. Im just assuming.

Hmmm...        hmmm. Yeah, two of those are sounding fascinating. 19 berserkers and kharne in one, lord woth axe of fury and 19 berserkers in the other. Annnnnnd... that'd be my army. Wait.. that doesnt sound good !

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  Rhaevyn on Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:11 am

nothing can assault the turn it arrives from reserves. so yeah, your zerkers drop down and stare reallly realllly hard at the guys in front of them.... or maybe, just maybe, shoot those plasma pistols you modelled onto them in 3rd edition.

Personally i would probably just use 19 chaos space marines /w mark and banner. that way you could put two meltaguns in there and wreck someones day.


... or moar!!1 bettah!... Noise marines /w a doom siren accompanied by an HQ /w a burning brand? you think haters whine about a bale drake, wait until two assault claws drop 3x ap 3 flamers up in your grill turn 1.

or a Tzeench sorc with last memory.... not only do you drop the giant ass blind bubble, but you're probably close enough to Breath of Chaos some  bishes too.


.... jesus, i really need to build one of these.


edit... if you want two on turn one, you'de have to build/buy 3 of them, which is 780 points just in transports... so yeah.

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  Planes on Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:14 am

Does the this new pod force a disembark? It's an assault vehicle, right? Slam down, flame flare, dakka dakka. Turn two, disembark, charge.

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  dusktiger on Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:13 am

no, it doesnt force a disembark. because you have the option of doing the heat blast attack on the turn it deep strikes in, and if you use the heat blast attack, you cant disembark the same turn.  so 2 can deep strike in on turn one, do a large area attack and fire all 5 storm launchers, then weather out any shots on them with their large FIVE hullpoints being an AV 12 hover mode model, then purge all your melee guys the next turn to assault. 

all you need to do is invest in a cheaper pod of any other variety for 2 of these bigger ones to enter on turn one as they use the drop pod assault rule.

overall, you need to threat this as a much more robust, highly mobile land raider with double the transport capacity.  that's essentially what this is.  a land raider with more HP, less AV, but gets to become a flyer and deep strike in on turn 1.  for an extra 10 pts over a normal land raider.

the model is rather expensive right now, but a few of the discount sites will have it soon, so will ebay.  but you gotta remember this thing is much bigger in scale than current pods as well, if you're gonna convert one.  the model comparison pics shows its wider than even a rhino chassis.  i'd hazard a guess that its possibly double the width of a normal pod.



i'd definitely be fine facing a set of these, but i would want to see the official model, or a damn close conversion in the correct scale.

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  System Commander on Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:19 pm

I like the idea of a group of combi flamered termes in there with a brand lord.. but its a tricky payoff. You use the.blast coming in.. the guys cqnt get out to shoot. If they stay in.. then they get out next round and roast a unit but probaly cant assault it.

I dont agree about treating it like a landraider. Raiders just trundle along slowly blasting with their heavy weaponry till they gwt ckiae enough to unleash hell. .. and use thier dirge casters.

I like the options it presents but it just seems a bit expensive. I think id be really happy if it was less hp, less guns, and just a cheaper to get the guys there.

I need to think more!

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Re: Kharybdis Assault Claw and Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

Post  Rhaevyn on Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:07 pm

we had the pod you were talking about, just FW screwed up with their DreadClaw wording in aeronautica. the old books used to say that it "entered play like a drop pod" which implied that it had Drop Pod Assault. but in aeronatica it doesn't have anything like those words, it says that it enters play as a Flyer. which is messed up on so many levels.

FW just needs to re-word or FAQ it and it would be fine =x

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