How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

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How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Roland on Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:51 pm

300 max for HQ, any number of choices

between 300-800 for troops, 2-4 slots

1 E slot, 300 point max

2 FA slots, 300 pt max

2 HS slots, 300 pt max, no duplicate codex entries.

(No more than 200 pts of flyers, unless its a single unit)

Don't bother with anything that swaps FOC slots, you'll just give yourself a headache.
Ex.
1500 Pts - Codex: Dark Angels Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Belial (1#, 190 pts)
1 Belial, 190 pts

Troops: Deathwing Terminator Squad (5#, 250 pts)
4 Deathwing Terminator Squad, 250 pts = 4 * 44 (base cost 44) + Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1 5 + Cyclone Missile Launcher x1 25 + Deathwing Terminator Sergeant 44

Troops: Deathwing Terminator Squad (5#, 250 pts)
4 Deathwing Terminator Squad, 250 pts = 4 * 44 (base cost 44) + Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1 5 + Cyclone Missile Launcher x1 25 + Deathwing Terminator Sergeant 44

Troops: Deathwing Terminator Squad (5#, 250 pts)
4 Deathwing Terminator Squad, 250 pts = 4 * 44 (base cost 44) + Chainfist x1 5 + Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1 5 + Assault Cannon x1 20 + Deathwing Terminator Sergeant 44

: Deathwing Command Squad (5#, 310 pts)
4 Deathwing Command Squad, 221 pts = 4 * 44 (base cost 44) + Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x1 5 + Heavy Flamer x1 10 + Deathwing Apothecary 74
1 Deathwing Apothecary, 44 pts
1 Deathwing Company Banner, 45 pts

Elite: Mortis Dreadnought (IA) (1#, 125 pts)
1 Mortis Dreadnought (IA), 125 pts = (base cost 105 + Twin Linked Autocannon (x2) 20)

Elite: Mortis Dreadnought (IA) (1#, 125 pts)
1 Mortis Dreadnought (IA), 125 pts = (base cost 105 + Twin Linked Autocannon (x2) 20)

-1 for a triplicate choice on Elites (Deathwing squad)
-1 for a second elites choice (Mortis Dread)
-1 for more than 300 pts of HQ
-2 for 200 pts over 300 (there is 500 pts of HQ on the nose)
-1 for more than 300 pts of elites (The DW counts as 375 pts of troops and 375 of Elite, add the 2 Mortis's and its 625 of elites)
-2 for more each full 150 over 300

12/20

In this case, I'd likely be better off trading the twin Mortis's for a Contemptor Mortis with all the bells and whistles, and a LS or something) I'd get 3 points back there.

You'll find similar issues with anything like this. God specific Chaos marines, Farsight lists, etc. I don't think Orks have it as bad, since the FOC switches are one shots.




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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Roland on Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:25 am

Hmm lets try another

1500 Pts - Codex: Necrons Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1499

HQ: Overlord (1#, 205 pts)
1 Overlord, 205 pts = (base cost 90 + Warscythe 10 + Mindshackle Scarabs 15 + Sempiternal Weave 15 + Resurrection Orb 30 + Phase Shifter 45)

: Royal Court (3#, 220 pts)
1 Royal Court, 0 pts
1 Harbinger of Destruction, 35 pts = (base cost 25 + Harbinger of Destruction 10)
1 Harbinger of Destruction, 35 pts = (base cost 25 + Harbinger of Destruction 10)
1 Lord, 150 pts = (base cost 35 + Warscythe 10 + Mindshackle Scarabs 15 + Sempiternal Weave 15 + Resurrection Orb 30 + Phase Shifter 45)

Troops: Immortals (6#, 185 pts)
5 Immortals, 85 pts = 5 * 17
1 Night Scythe, 100 pts

Troops: Immortals (6#, 185 pts)
5 Immortals, 85 pts = 5 * 17
1 Night Scythe, 100 pts

Troops: Warriors (10#, 232 pts)
9 Warriors, 117 pts = 9 * 13
1 Ghost Ark, 115 pts

Troops: Warriors (10#, 232 pts)
9 Warriors, 117 pts = 9 * 13
1 Ghost Ark, 115 pts

Fast Attack: Canoptek Scarabs (4#, 60 pts)
4 Canoptek Scarabs, 60 pts = 4 * 15

Heavy Support: Annihilation Barge (1#, 90 pts)
1 Annihilation Barge, 90 pts

Heavy Support: Annihilation Barge (1#, 90 pts)
1 Annihilation Barge, 90 pts

I get 16/20 for this. (The Scythes are counted as flyers only not dedicated transports according to the site. Boooo. My DW count as Elites AND Troops, but this doesn't count as a DT AND a flyer?)


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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:54 am

The other thing to remember: Comp points don't hurt you too badly. If we did it here, it'd depend on how much we weight it for a game. In Astro, where each match is worth potentially 20 points and there are 6 rounds, a comp of anywhere between 10-20 is close to a single "win" out of 6. Here, we'd have to balance it to be 1/2 a win, which would put it on-par with sportsmanship for value.

===

Astro uses the comp score for pairings more than anything. So in the first round, you're paired against someone with a similar comp.

===

For me, it's just another fascinating way to build an army list (much like Highlander)

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:26 am

Highlander style lists do fairly well with astro scoring.

The biggest thing is to avoid being spammy with your lists. FoC swaps aren't toooo bad as long as you don't want anything else from that FoC slot. like say plague marines swapped to troops only cost 1/2 of thier points as elites, so as long as you don't want a bunch of terminators on top of your plague marines, you should be OK. Or say a space marine bike list, take a bunch of bikes as troops, but then don't double down by taking a bunch of Assault marines as well.




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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Roland on Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:17 pm

I'm feeding my Orks into it tonight. Will be 19/20 I believe for A duplicate Battlewagon

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  superdeuxlol on Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:43 pm

Can someone link me to the comp set up?

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:03 pm

Roland wrote:I'm feeding my Orks into it tonight. Will be 19/20 I believe for A duplicate Battlewagon
-1 for over 150 pts in Dedicated Transports.

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:03 pm

big thing i think is to not let the comp rule you. You still need to have a viable list and comp means nothing if you can't win games. With our smaller base, even the pairings via comp thing wouldnt matter as much. now when you get 40-60 players, Then pairings can make a diffference.

I had a 19/20 comp for astro vancouver so ended up playing against the guy who Won Best Sports (which was code for least competitive army: CSMs and Chosen on Foot! )

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:04 pm

superdeuxlol wrote:Can someone link me to the comp set up?

http://astronomi-con.com/

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Roland on Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:09 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:
Roland wrote:I'm feeding my Orks into it tonight. Will be 19/20 I believe for A duplicate Battlewagon
-1 for over 150 pts in Dedicated Transports.

Both heavy support (-1 for duplicate HS)

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:20 pm

Apologies for Copy-Pasta!

===========


Composition is scored as follows: Start with a full 20 points and deduct from that total as indicated below.

FORCE ORGANIZATION SECTION

-1 for the fifth Troops selection.
-1 for the sixth Troops selection.

-1 for a third Fast Attack selection.
-1 if the third Fast Attack selection is a triplicate.
-1 for a fourth Fast Attack selection.

-1 for a second Elites selection.
-1 for a third Elites selection.
-1 if the third Elites selection is a triplicate*.
-1 for a fourth Elites selection.

-1 for a third Heavy Support selection.
-1 for a fourth Heavy Support selection.
-1 for a duplicate* Heavy Support selection.
-1 for a triplicate* Heavy Support selection.



All of the above include any allied forces selected.

* duplicate and triplicate selections refer to having a second or third selection of the same unit entry in the codex in your army. Varying wargear or a unit’s upgrades does not alter the status of a unit as a duplicate or triplicate selection.

Note that duplicate and triplicate penalties apply based on the ‘home’ Force Org position of a unit. For example, a player taking 3 Vanguard Squads but taking them as Troops due to a special character will not take the penalty for 3 FA choices, but will take the -1 ‘Triplicate’ selection for having a triplicate of the same Fast Attack choice.

All points are cumulative (so if you have 4 HS choices then you take -1 for 3rd and another for 4th for a total of -2, with another -1 if it is duplicate and yet another if it is triplicate).

“Home” Troops units never suffer minuses for duplicates (taking 2, 3, or even 4 Tactical Space Marine squads will not cause any kind of a Force Org Penalty).





POINTS SECTION

-1 for more than 300 points of HQ.
-1 for each full 100 points of HQ over 300 points.

-1 for less than 300 points of Troops.
-1 for less than 200 points of Troops.
-1 for more than 800 points of Troops.
-1 for more than 1000 points of Troops.

-1 for more than 300 points of Fast Attack.
-1 for each full 150 points of Fast Attack over 300 points.

-1 for more than 300 points of Elites.
-1 for each full 150 points of Elites over 300 points.

-1 for more than 300 points of Heavy Support.
-1 for each full 150 points of Heavy Support over 300 points.

-1 for more than 150 points of Dedicated Transports.
-1 for each full 150 points of Dedicated Transports over 150 points.

-1 for more than 200 points of flyers/flying Monstrous Creatures unless all points are for a single model (this includes any upgrades). Single models are counted in their own Force Organization total.
-1 for each full 150 points of flyers/flying Monstrous Creatures over 200 points.

All of the above include any allied forces selected.

All points combinations exclude any dedicated transports and their wargear/equipment (all of which go into the dedicated transport section).

All points combinations (including dedicated transports if any) of vehicles with the rating ‘Flyer’ or Flying Monstrous creature, go into the flyer category. As an example, Necron Night Scythes are both flyers and dedicated transports – in this case they go into the flyer category.

For forces which are bought out of their ‘home’ slot (Fast Attack which ‘count as’ Troops for instance due to the presence of a commander model, or elite cult units which count as Troops due to the presence of a marked Chaos Lord) there is a special case. Half of the points for these units count in ‘Troops’. The other half is still counted in their ‘home’ Force Org area.



Example for calculating Composition:



Mike is taking a Space Marine Army to Astronomi-con. This army consists of:

HQ

1 Chaplain (100 Points)
1 Company Captain w Command Squad (100 + 115)

Troops

2 Tactical Squads in Rhinos (170+35 and 170+35)
1 Scout Squad (90)

Elites

1 Dreadnought (105)
1 Sternguard squad in a drop pod (180+35)

Fast Attack

1 Space Marine Bike Squad (100)

Heavy Support

1 Devastator Squad in a Razorback (136+40)
1 Whirlwind (85)



Total army cost 1496



Example of Force Organization Section scoring:

HQ

There are no penalties for HQs in the Force Org Section, so nothing for the HQ choices.

Troops

There are only three Troop choices, so no penalties for those. Note that even though there are two tac squads, there is no penalty for duplicating a ‘home’ troop choice.

Elites

For Elites there are two being taken but they are not duplicates. As such a -1 penalty applies. Had Mike taken a pair of Dreadnoughts or Sternguard Squads (regardless of specific options/transports) he would have taken an additional -1 for a duplicate Elite choice

Fast Attack

With only a single FA choice being taken, there are no penalties

Heavy Support

Mike has decided his army needs two heavy support choices to handle what he is likely to meet. As there is no penalty for a second HS choice, he loses nothing for taking two. As the choices are not duplicates (two devastator squads or two whirlwinds for example) he does not take a minus for a duplicate or triplicate HS choice.



Mike’s total Force Org Section score is a -1, having lost only a single point for having two elites.



Example of Points Section scoring:

HQ

Mike has a total of 315 points of HQ which is a -1 for being over 300 points.

Troops

With a total of 430 points in troops, Mike takes no minuses – The dedicated transports are counted in the dedicated transports section

Elites

Mike has 285 points of Elites which is under 300 points so no penalties.

Fast Attack

The bike squad is only a small unit worth 100 points so accrues no penalties.

Heavy Support

Despite having 2 HS choices they are quite inexpensive. With only 261 points of HS, no penalties apply.

Dedicated Transports

This army has a number of inexpensive dedicated transports totaling only 145 points. No penalties apply.



Mike’s total Points Section score is a -1, for the HQ.

With both penalties combined, Mike will score an 18 Composition out of a possible 20 points.



Example of ‘Troops from another segment of the List’

Justin takes Logan Grimnar and 890 points of Wolf Guard models in Terminator armor for his ‘Loganwing’ army. These are purchased in 3 units of Wolf Guard. He also has a dreadnought (normally you couldn’t have ‘four elites’ but three of these are going to be moved to troops, so it’s okay.

For the Force Organization section, Justin takes -1 for a triplicate Elite (three Wolf Guard units) but as each is being moved to the Troops section he takes no negatives for having multiple Elites. Only the Dreadnought is staying there so he has only one ‘Elite Choice’.

Justin’s army has no other Troop units in it, so he is considered to have 445 points worth of Troops. However he is also considered to have 445 points of Elites models from these choices which he then adds to the 115 point Dreadnought he has also purchased from Elites for a total of 560 points of Elites. Justin will take -2 for his Elites choices: -1 for being over 300 points and -1 for each full 150 points he is over his 300 allowance.(560-300=260/150=1.73 rounded down to 1).

So just for his Elites/Troops choices, Justin takes a -3. Then there is the rest of his army to consider.



Example of Flyer scoring:

Damien takes two Stormravens in his Blood Angels army. Each is bought with sponson upgrades costing 230 points for a total of 460 points of flyers. On the Force Org chart he will take -1 for a Duplicate HS.

In the points section he will take -2, -1 for more than 200 points of flyers and -1 for a full 150 more over that 200. Had he taken only a single Stormraven, he would have lost no points as a single flyer is only 1 HS choice and you may have any number of points in a single aircraft without penalty. The Stormraven would count toward his Heavy Support tally, but as this is his only Heavy Support selection and is under 300 points, he takes no additional minuses.

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Roland on Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:09 pm

1500 Pts - Codex: Orks Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Mad Dok Grotsnik (1#, 160 pts)
1 Mad Dok Grotsnik, 160 pts

HQ: Mega-armoured Warboss (1#, 105 pts)
1 Mega-armoured Warboss, 105 pts = (base cost 60 + Mega Armour 40 + Cybork Body 5)

Elite: Lootas (10#, 150 pts)
8 Lootas, 120 pts = 8 * 15
2 Mekboy, 30 pts = 2 * 15

Troops: Meganobz (5#, 215 pts)
4 Meganobz, 180 pts = 4 * 45 (base cost 40 + Cybork Body 5)
1 Trukk, 35 pts

Troops: Boyz (20#, 175 pts)
19 Boyz, 124 pts = 19 * 6 (base cost 6) + Big Shoota x2 10
1 Boyz Nob, 51 pts = (base cost 16 + 'Eavy Armour 5 + Bosspole 5 + Power Klaw 25)

Troops: Boyz (20#, 185 pts)
19 Boyz, 134 pts = 19 * 6 (base cost 6) + Rokkit Launcha x2 20
1 Boyz Nob, 51 pts = (base cost 16 + 'Eavy Armour 5 + Bosspole 5 + Power Klaw 25)

Fast Attack: Dakkajet (1#, 130 pts)
1 Dakkajet, 130 pts = (base cost 90 + TL Supa Shoota x3 30 + Flyboss 10)

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (1#, 140 pts)
1 Battlewagon, 140 pts = (base cost 90 + Deff Rolla 20) + Big Shoota x2 10 + Rokkit Launcha x2 20

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (1#, 140 pts)
1 Battlewagon, 140 pts = (base cost 90 + Deff Rolla 20 + Kannon 10) + Big Shoota x4 20

: Aegis Defence Lines (2#, 100 pts)
1 Aegis Defence Lines, 50 pts
1 Gun Emplacement, 50 pts = (base cost 0 + Quad-gun 50)

I get 19/20 for this one.

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Aegwymourn on Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:06 pm

If we were to run this type of event also remember that the Astro missions are VERY different than book missions. I cannot stress how important infantry and stuff that can pick up objectives are. I had two units of 12 fire warriors and a unit of 15 kroot and was horribly low on "scoring". It didn't help that in at least 3/6 games I started with large portions of my list off the board (in one game I didn't even get a riptide and a skyray in. That is 300+ points that I just handicapped myself by).

edit: Mark and Mike also have the gist of it. Don't get to hung up by the comp system. It is there to show you how a list "generally" should look.

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  superdeuxlol on Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:11 pm

Beau why not drop the 2nd wagon and grab another boy squad?

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:48 pm

Aegwymourn wrote:edit: Mark and Mike also have the gist of it. Don't get to hung up by the comp system. It is there to show you how a list "generally" should look.

*THIS*

If I could go back and do it again, I'd've brought a 12/20 Necron list and smashed everyone's face in.

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:52 pm

Astro marks out of 230 total points. comp is 20 of that total, the best overall winner had a 170, i had 3rd with 158 points. so even if i had gone with a 20/20 List i wouldn't have gotten 1st. i wouldn't have even gotten best general which i got 2nd with a 67 to the winners 70. Best General is tabulated by adding comp+battle points. (they screwed me btw, said i got 3rd in best general, but the guy they said got 2nd only had 62 points. Razz )

All that being said, the missions are completely random and BORKED. some missions its impossible to get full points on, and others are super easy and you dont have any say on which tables you play on. Those people who end up playing kill points missions have a better chance of winning the whole tournament because they can rack up so many more battle points than say, missions where the objectives can DIE and provide zero battle points.

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:49 am

Rhaevyn wrote:, missions where the objectives can DIE and provide zero battle points.

This. I played on the truck escape board and first turn I killed two trucks, both with explodes and lost those two objectives. So right there a bunch of points went out the window.

I really like their missions, but they either all need to be scored like that or all KP. Mixing both without everyone having the same split is not cool.

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Re: How to max out Comp with Astro style lists

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