League Question

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League Question

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:47 am

Hey Robyn,

Are we allowed to use Formations in the League Finals? --- :-)

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Re: League Question

Post  superdeuxlol on Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:26 pm

And lords of war?

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Re: League Question

Post  System Commander on Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:18 pm

Nope nope nope!

At least not for the finals. Youll have to fight our way through with only standard codex entries for the league finals. So no stronghold, escalation, dataslates, formations or FW this time around.

We can definitely revisit it for the next league.. im definitely not against it.

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Re: League Question

Post  Planes on Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:43 pm

I'd be down for facing off against a Be'lakor or Cypher.

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Re: League Question

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:44 pm

Planes wrote:I'd be down for facing off against a Be'lakor or Cypher.

How about a Tau formation in an Eldar Army.... mmm broadsides & riptide with tank hunters and no HQ/Troop tax.

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Re: League Question

Post  System Commander on Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:02 pm

We'll look at it for next league.

Both of those guys have a lot going on.. and while anyone can find rules for them online.. if.you havent gone over their rules ahead of time it can be alot to absorb their special rules prior or during a game.

Supplements are more a codex of their own.. so they are all in.

I like the idea of having a codex only final but if enough people rally for full inclusion we can bring it in for next league.. thered have to be a miracle though for me let in lords of war or any D weapon forts.

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Re: League Question

Post  Rhaevyn on Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:04 pm

no thanks

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Re: League Question

Post  Roland on Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:21 pm

I'm split.

On one hand I think disallowing some things (like FW) means ppl can't play a list they've been playing for months (Tom's dark harvest or my mortis dreads come to mind.

Then there is the part of me that says brb, codex and that's it. No allies, no forts. Maybe a 2 book max (not counting the BRB)? You could still get forts out of the BRB...

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Re: League Question

Post  Planes on Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:31 pm

I could deal with a 2 book max, with the BRB not counting against the tally, as it has the basic fortifications and the core psychic power tables. Space Marines don't have their own proprietary powers, after all.

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Re: League Question

Post  Rhaevyn on Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:38 pm

how about... bring whatever you want. dataslates, Escalation, Fortification....

Leave Divination at home, and battle brothers count as allies of convenience.

Thats my universal fix. Of course this coming from a csm player, its entirely in my favor. But really, the problems with the current game," in my opinion" come from mixing divination and independent characters into units from codecies that were never meant to have certain abilities. Not from FW units or even lords of war.

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Re: League Question

Post  Aegwymourn on Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:20 pm

Divination is good, but not any more silly than say, telepathy with the right powers. Watching your own dudes shoot/melee themselves is frustrating to say the least.

All of the "competitive" psychic stuff tends to shift the game and "break" portions of it.

I do think that GW could have been more careful for which armies have access to powers and who can ally with who.

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Re: League Question

Post  Roland on Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:28 pm

I remember reading somewhere about being able to choose psychic powers would lead to more disp other than div. course, that's a whole other can of worms.


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Re: League Question

Post  Aegwymourn on Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:48 pm

Well there are two good psychic trees (divination and telepathy) where almost each power is good. Then you have Biomancy which has the odd good power and plays to a specific army. Everything else is trash. Even with picking powers there is almost nothing worth taking in pyromancy/telekinesis when you could pick hallucinate/puppet master/forwarning/iron arm.

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Re: League Question

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:12 pm

You don't like Spontaneous Combustion, Molten Beam, Gate of Infinity, or Objuration Mechanicum? (Divination 5/6 good, Telepathy 5/6 good, Biomancy 4/6 good, Telekinesis & Pyromancy 1 or 2 / 6 good)

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Re: League Question

Post  Aegwymourn on Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:22 pm

Spontaneous combustion isn't bad for sniping poor schmucks, but requires a bunch of things to go right (pass psychic test, roll less than required amount, fail deny, isn't a character). Molten beam is blah, because it is two warp charges and while neat is far more random than say hallucinate. Gate of infinity is gimmicky and can be neat, but it falls under those "needs a specific list". Objuration Mechanincum is the same as spontaneous combustion, good, but not quite as nice as some of the others.

For good competitive gameplay you can't beat the powers in Divination and Telepathy.

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Re: League Question

Post  Roland on Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:26 pm

That's what im saying. If you could take Gate of Infinity every time, and could build. List around it, is that better or worse than now?

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Re: League Question

Post  Aegwymourn on Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:46 pm

Roland wrote:That's what im saying. If you could take Gate of Infinity every time, and could build. List around it, is that better or worse than now?

Meh, there are a lot of armies with good defense against Deep Striking units. My Tau would love for you to keep bunching up each turn so I can pie plate you  Razz 

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Re: League Question

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:37 am

the rules for deepstrikeing and not being able to charge off a deep strike make Gate a meh ability. scattering and clumping is so dangerous that it wasn't an issue in 5th and i can't really see it being an issue in 6th I would love to see some armies based on it though Smile

I'll stick to my guns on divination, i'm fairly certain the Tau codex was written with the idea that Prescience wasn't available =/ hence marker lights. But no, now we can have a farseer and use our marker lights to remove cover saves. But maybe thats just me.

also, would anyone REALLY care about inquisition if they weren't easy access to a third cheap HQ with Divination? psybolt chimeras and adding Psykeout grenades to whatever the hell you want aside...

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Re: League Question

Post  Guardian Angel on Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:43 am

The funny thing is that GW was really careful about eliminating the special rules from one codex affecting another (Straken's Counter attack bubble or Sang Priest Feel no pain bubble), but Psychic powers can affect across codices.

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Re: League Question

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:03 am

Guardian Angel wrote:The funny thing is that GW was really careful about eliminating the special rules from one codex affecting another (Straken's Counter attack bubble or Sang Priest Feel no pain bubble), but Psychic powers can affect across codices.  

The *only* real issue is Battle Bro's w\ Divination. (Taudar being the worst offenders)

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Re: League Question

Post  Paz on Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:47 am

mike- I take inquisitors for fluff and modelling fun, and dat double needle pistol power. I have yet to see a single person run an inquisitor in a broken way. Remember that any unit joined by an inquisitor cannot use a dedicated transport, so, especially for marines (and if you're not planning on running big expensive henchman squads) it means foot marines or scouts and that's it. I could see people complaining about an inquisitor in a centurion squad, but that's a huge points sink, that can get gimped pretty quickly.

Taudar are the real culprits of divination shenanigans, but I think after a game or two, any taudar player here knows how jerky it is to double tap prescience/markerlight bullhookey.

Both inquisitors in my lists have yet to really make their points back (my hellrifle bro has yet to kill anything past a venom or two).

I'm surprised by the amount of people wanting to ban stuff here. Maybe I haven't seen much powery stuff lately, or at least nothing I felt was unbeatable... I say, easy way to control dataslates and escalation in the league- when you set up game, ask permisssion from your opponent. If they say no, don't be a sad panda! I think it gives anyone the chance to play with a unit they spent a pile of money on (its $190 for the lord of skulls for godsakes).
For league finals, leave out escalation and datalslates, its the finals, you should be able to win 3-4 games without these, and you got to play those units in regular league play, so whatchoo complaining about? Razz

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Re: League Question

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:58 am

Ya, we need to play more games.

I think for the league, because this huge stuff was sprung on us mid-league, we kinda need to wait until the next league and play a few games.

We didn't have the league live during the switchover from 5th to 6th for the same reason.

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Re: League Question

Post  Planes on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:59 am

I for one would love to run Coteaz in a Dev Centurion squad one of these days with Warp Quake spammed across the board just to force his "I've been expecting you" to happen. It would be fun to to once or twice, but the scope of that gimmick would be so narrow, it would rarely go off. First you need to fight an army that Deep Strikes, then you need them to Deep Strike within the bounds of the Warp Quakes (by scatter or intent), then you need to get the "Enemy places the models" result, and THEN you need to finish them off in that instance of out-of-sequence shooting, or you're hooped one phase latter. Super narrow gimmick, activate!

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Re: League Question

Post  superdeuxlol on Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:05 pm

I would love to pick my psychic powers. Beau can we play a game with that in effect for fun?

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Re: League Question

Post  System Commander on Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:37 pm

Oh.. i dont want to ban anything outight at all.

For the playoffs though..i really just want people to stick with codices, brb, and supplements (which i view as actual codices). Thats what we've always done in the past. Now that weve so many new additions.. we might have to rethink it.

The rest of.it is all free and fair.. juat let your opponent know if your bringing something oddball.. or want to try something new (like cypher or a new fort).

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