Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

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Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:19 pm

With the new Nids dex around the corner, all those lovely, lovely bits and kits have got me thinking about Daemons and conversions, specifically making a Great Unclean One using the tentacle mouth from the new big bug kit. I figure before I go an commit to buying/building any of this, though, I should try to at least figure out how I intent to use it. To that end, I have made up a moderately fluffy (and hopefully playable) CSM/Daemons list.

Before anyone beats me to it, yes, this list has very little response to air.

HQ:
Great Unclean One, Mastery lvl 3, Exalted Reward (Eternal Blade), Greater Reward (Fecundity or Fury, depending). 290 points

Chaos Lord, Mark of Slaanesh, Steed of Slaanesh, Lightning Claw, Power Fist. 140 points

Typhus. 230 points

Troops:
Daemonettes x15, Allueress, Lesser Reward (Virulence), Lesser Reward. 160 points

Noise Marines x10, Blast Master x2, Icon of Excess. 270 points

Plague Marines x7, Plasma Gun x2, Chaos Rhino. 233 points

Plague Marines x7, Plasma Gun x2. 198 points

Zombies x13. 62 points

Elites:
Beasts of Nurgle x3. 156 points

Fast Attack:
Plague Drones x3, Plague Bringer, Greater Reward (Fecundity), Venom Sting. 166 points

Raptors x10, Mark of Slaanesh, Icon of Excess, Meltagun x2. 250 points

Heavy Support:
Havocs x5, Autocannon x4, Mark of Nurgle, Veterans of the Long War. 135 points

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:31 pm

Ya, Air. Havocs with Autocannons can function in a pinch, but a Heldrake might wreck you. Otherwise, it's solid. Dude still has to beat your stuff on the ground. What would you drop to shrink it to 1750?

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:35 pm

For 1750 I'd drop 2 Zombies, the Rhino'd Plagues, and a Lesser Reward off of the Allueress. I would leave me with exactly 1 point to do nothing with.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:46 pm

Daemon Anti-Air is usually done by way of a FMC Daemon Prince of Tzeentch or Slaanesh getting into the rear ark and blasting away the AV10 that's back there.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:58 pm

I'm not a big fan of Tzeentch, despite it's demonstrated effectiveness. I could slip a flying prince into there, but it would have to come from the CSM side of things, I think, and the CSM powers are far less impressive than "look at my d6 heavy bolters".

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:09 pm

The easier solution, and keeping it in theme, would probably to go with a duo of Blight Drones, come to think of it. Crap BS, sure, but they have lots of utility to harass the ground with when not pestering fliers.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:25 pm

Planes wrote:The easier solution, and keeping it in theme, would probably to go with a duo of Blight Drones, come to think of it.  Crap BS, sure, but they have lots of utility to harass the ground with when not pestering fliers.

Blight Drones?

The other solution is a Soulgrinder of Nurgle. Might be a fun conversion too. 150pts for AV13-13-11 4HP of walkery goodness with 3 S7 AP4 Skyfire shots at BS3. He can't run anyway, so move up and shoot at a flier. (He's not killing a Heldrake, but Heldrake's aren't your problem, Nightscythes and Dakkajets are)

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:47 pm

Blight Drones.

They come with a Reaper Autocannon, as well as puking on things, but are BS 2.  They get around the whole skyfire issue by being fliers.  They're either 125 point a head,  and can be taken in squadrons of 3, and 3HP each ta-boot!  The big thing with them is the Phlegm mode of the Mawcannon is Str 8, AP 3, Large Blast.

All that said, I'm going to have to poke around to make sure these numbers are current, as the source I am looking at is old enough to still have it listed as a Fast Skimmer, rather than a Flyer with Hover.

Edit: Only 2 HP, it seems. Only had 3 for a brief window of time before Aeronautica came out with a 6th Ed stat line. All the other numbers still seem to be correct.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:56 pm

Some more iteration at the 1750 point level:

HQ:
Typhus. 230

Great Unclean One, Mastery 3, Exalted (Eternal Blade), Greater (Fecundity/Fury). 290

Troops:
Plague Marines x7, Plasma Gun x2. 198

Zombies x14. 66

Daemonettes x15, Allueress, Lesser Reward (Virulence). 150

Elites:
Beasts of Nurgle x2. 104

Noise Marines x10, Blast Master x2, Icon of Excess. 270

Fast Attack:
Plague Drones, Plaguebringer, Greater Reward (Fecundity), Venom Sting. 166

Blight Drones x2. 250

Heavy Support:
Havocs x5, Autocannon x4, Mark of Nurgle, VotLW. 135

Soul Grinder, Nurgle, Phlegm Bombardment. 180


Now, this grants me some AA to work with, but I'm really starting to feel the pain on my troop base. With the sudden abbundance of Str 8 AP 3 board staturation, I think maybe dropping the Havocs and sneaking the Slaanesh lord back in to make the Noise Marines scoring again.

I have to say, though, I don't feel nearly as bad about fielding double drones compaired to double drake, given that they don't deny cover saves with their AP 3 gun.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:56 am

After much more hyming and hawing, I opted to drop the Havocs and re-introduce the Slaanesh lord as a terminator, and threw a few more zombies in. He can tank for the noise marines.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  john549 on Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:46 pm

blight drones are sadly 150 now in IA Apoc (2013) plague hulks however got amazeballs but they dont help your flier issue one bit.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:48 pm

I want to run Beasts, but blehck, $30 a pop for Finecast? What would people think of the Charnel Grub from the Bones line as a subsitution?

http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/worm/latest/03017#detail/IG_95_3

I could bits/Green Stuff it up a bit, but it looks like it would more or less line up with the aesthetics of my army.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:48 pm

150 now, eh? So I just need to free up 50 more points, then...

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:42 pm

Ok, so after subbing the lord back in and updating for the latest points value.

HQ:
Great Unclean One, Mastery 3, Exalted (Eternal Blade), Greater (Fecundity/Fury). 290 points

Typhus. 230 points

Chaos Lord, Mark of Slaanesh, Terminator Armor. 120 points

Troops:
Daemonettes x15, Allueress, Lesser (Virulence). 150 points

Plague Marines x6, Plasma Gun x2. 174 points

Zombies x 11. 54 points

Noise Marines x10, Blast Master x2, Icon of Excess. 270

Elites:
Beasts of Nurgle x2. 104 points

Fast Attack:
Plague Drones x3, Plague Bringer, Greater Reward (Fecundity), Venom Sting. 166 points

Blight Drones x2. 300 points

Heavy Support:
Soul Grinder, Nurgle, Phlegm Bombardment. 180 points

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:51 pm

Having picked up the bulk of what is needed to run this list this weekend, I found out something interesting about the latest version of the Blight Drone rules. They picked up Daemon of Nurgle along with that 25 point price hike, giving them a 3+ jink save, 2+ if they flat out or are shot at by something close enough to them to invoke defensive grenades. Also having PE(Tzentch) is just fluffy icing on the cake. Suddenly only having 2 hull points doesn't seem that fragile anymore.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  john549 on Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:00 pm

whoa! they're deamons of nurgle now? how did i miss that! yeah 25pts seems fair for that.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  superdeuxlol on Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:19 pm

Fecundity is a loci, not a greater gift. I find it best to give them 3+ poison and give the leader the instant death sword. If they could take that locus that would be amazing.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:13 pm

I thought you were able to swap out rewards for Loci. Perhaps I got mixed up with that somewhere, given that the follow the same Lesser/Greater/Exalted format as rewards.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:23 pm

Wow, there's 12 Loci in the book, but only 4 models in the whole codex can buy them? That's horrid! I guess I was hoping against hope that there would be a way to get some consistency out of the book with stable trade options.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:59 pm

Planes wrote:Wow, there's 12 Loci in the book, but only 4 models in the whole codex can buy them?  That's horrid!  I guess I was hoping against hope that there would be a way to get some consistency out of the book with stable trade options.

Just the 4 heralds, if I remember correctly. Some of them come with Loci for free. I only know the Tzeentch ones. The Changeling comes with the one that makes each pink horror do D3 S2 hits on death (Mr. Miller taught me a long time ago that improved death is just planning for failure). The other one is swap your strength for a D6 roll. Only really good on Screamers, and only if you roll a 5 or 6 (I guess it'd make Horror's assault worthy???... ewe). The last being the amazing +1S to all your psychic witchfires... which is sooooooo good.... stupid good.

Nurgle has a FnP one, if I remember correctly. Slaneesh has one where people can't refuse a challenge (that and their heralds are high WS, Initiative, and Rending). Khorne has a Furious Charge one.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:04 pm

For an allied force, though, the GUO and Heralds of any sort are mutually exclusive. Having been forced to rethink some of my options on units, I find myself fond of the concept of a Rot Proboscus fly squad with a Greater Etherblade. Against MEQ/TEQs, that's wounding on a 3+ with a re-roll, all at AP 2. I'd call that passable.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:52 pm

Kinda good against Riptides & Wraithknights as well.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:21 pm

While true, I think the Great Unclean One would be better suited to the task of taking either of those down, though the Drones could tie them up the extra turn he needs to get there.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:42 pm

Ok, let's try this again, now knowing that rewards can't be traded for Loci, and that I haven't picked up anything to use for Beasts yet.

HQ:
Great Unclean One, Mastery 3, Exalted (Eternal Blade), Greater (+1W & IWND; else Balesword). 290 pts

Typhus. 230 pts

Chaos Lord, MoSlaanesh, Terminator Armor. 120 pts

Troops:
Daemonettes x15, Alluress, Greater (Lash of Despair). 160 pts

Plague Marines x6, Plasma Gun x2. 174 pts

Zombies x11. 54 pts

Noise Marines x10, Blast Master x2, Icon of Excess. 270 pts

Cultists x10, Mark of Nurgle, Heavy Stubber. 79 pts

Fast Attack:
Plague Drones x3, Plague Bringer, Greater (Greater Etherblade), Rot Proboscis, Death's Heads. 181 pts

Blight Drones x2. 300 pts

Heavy Support:
Soul Grinder, Daemon of Nurgle, Phlegm Bombardment. 180 pts

Total: 1748 points


Keeps the troop count up, adds a touch more shooting to the list, and gives the Great Unclean One a choice of weapons depending on what he's looking at getting into melee with. For things with Eternal Warrior (or tanks), the Eternal Blade for sheer volume of attacks, for things without, the Balesword. And as icing on the cake, they are both specialist weapons for +1 attack.

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Re: Plague Concepting - 2000 pts

Post  Planes on Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:02 pm

Now, just a quick question for people, as this would be a general consideration for the army.  There are two "official" Great Unclean One models out there, the Games Workshop Great Unclean One (where you are charged an arm and a leg for a model the size of a Daemon Prince made out of resin) and the Forge World Great Unclean One (still expensive, still resin, much better sculpt). Here's the thing, though. Price point and sculpts aside, there is one key difference between the two models. One is around the same size and scale of a Daemon Prince, the other makes a Tervigon look like an anorexic.

As the Forge World version sits sideways on an oval base and occupies most of said base, while standing 4 inches tall in the center, would anyone have issue with me going for a scratch build trying to replicate these dimensions? Or, alternately, using the Forge World version if/when I get my hands on it. I'm partial to both the aesthetic it offers along with the ermahgerd hugeness associated with it.

I figured I'd ask to see what people's thoughts were on the subject before I commit too much time to trying to build the beast.

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