Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

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Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:57 am

Interesting -- I have no opinions yet ---

1.) The Grimoire of True Names from Codex: Daemons is banned
As of right now, this is the only true banning. We feel there is too much potential for abuse, and disagree with the effect it has on the army and the game.

2.) A few units will receive 0-1 status
For those of you who weren't around when 0-1 was a thing in codecies, means that a maximum of 1 of that unit may be taken per army. These are all units whose mass inclusion limits the potential lists in the game, and will thus be restricted. (As none of them are a problem on their own.) Rest assured that this will be a very short list, we are not interested in creating very restricted armies.

3.) Supplemental Codecies will no longer be able to ally to their base codex
There will be no more self-allying, no more cherry picking the best parts of a supplement while paying none of the costs, and no more force-org bloat from doing so.

4.) Dataslates will take an ally slot
Taking units from many, many different books and ignoring the force organization chart is too much. This change will make dataslates an interesting addition to the game, without allowing for truly bizzare armies.

5.) The number of psychic mastery levels in an army will be limited
This change will eliminate a great many power combos from the game, and will stop a player from making a lot of lucky rolls on the psychic power tables to effectively win the game before it begins.

6.) Strength D is out, Lords of Battle are in
We feel the the Lords of Battle are not overpowered on their own, the fact that they give the opponent some advantages (bonus to seize, and especially victory points) balances out their fearsome firepower and powerful endurance. Strength D, however, is too powerful. This is well-known by every apoc player (and I am one of them), and has been the case for the past two editions. (Yes, it was even overpowered back in 5th, and it was much worse then.) There is some debate still going on, but it looks like S:D will become S:10, ordinance, ignores cover. That still makes it very powerful, but more in line with the price paid for the superheavy as well as it's other weapon options. In addition, superheavies will have to start on the table.

7.) Super-forts are gone, or at least downsized
No AV15, it will be AV14 instead. Every individual fortification from Stronghold Assault is allowed, but the “network” choices are simply too big and unwieldy to allow for tournament play. (As a consolation, they're pretty terrible, so I think it's OK.)

8.) Dedicated transport flyers will be limited
Flyers are not the be-all end-all of this edition, but all-flyer and mostly-flyer armies change the meta in uncomfortable ways and are notoriously unfun to play against.


Last edited by Lore Weaver on Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:39 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Roland on Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:29 pm

The direction is good, but no specifics yet

I can see riptide, wraithknights and a lot of flyers being 0-1.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Planes on Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:52 pm

#5 has me wondering what the number will be, with both GK and Nids having a certain amount of mastery level innately (on HQs for Nids, and on just about everything for actual GK).

I'm not sure just yet if #4 is even necessary yet, as all the data slates have been 600+ pts so far, and none of them can score outside of Big Guns. That said, we still have 14 more days on the advent calendar yet, and we don't know how frequently GW plans to keep putting them out after Christmas passes. I can entirely understand the thought process behind it, though.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:11 pm

There is also the argument that data slates can never score (even in big guns) because they do not occupy a FOC slot.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  judchic on Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:15 pm

That makes the most sense ATM.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:23 pm

The issue with the Tau dataslate (the only "broken" one), is that you get some of the best units from the Tau book, with no real tax, and they all get Tank Hunters for free.

Picture this. I play Eldar main, Ally in Tigurius (with some scouts & Centrians with Grav), and plug in 600 pts of Tau.

Eldar is 105+195+195 | Marines are Tiggy+Scouts+260 Centurians | Tau are 700ish with the load out I'd take.

The resulting army is dumb at 1750

===

The SM Fliers suck because you lose chapter tactics for a +1BS against ground targets
The Eldar one sucks because it's 1100 points for 0 scoring units.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  judchic on Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:28 pm

I love the comments where he posted it where you can tell who plays for fun and who just want to smash people.
And the only benefits flyers got for chapter tactics was if they were with iron hands. They don't have chapter tactics otherwise.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:58 pm

IWND from Iron Hands

Did the Imperial Fists allow some bolter shenanigans?

==

Not sure how they'd implement the Psychic thing, not sure what they're trying to stop (Fortune, Invis, Protect, Forewarning maybe?)

I've played a lot of psychic spam lists, most of the ridiculousness comes from blessings, as most opponents (barring Wolves and Nids) don't have any recourse.

==

Not sure what they'd limit with 0-1 either. Helldrakes? Wraith Knights? Doom Scythes?

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Planes on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:02 pm

Who runs Doom Scythes? I mean, really?

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:03 pm

Well really once you take the Grimore out there isn't much psychic stuff that is that bad anymore. Re-rolling ones with forewarning is a lot less good.

Maybe just the flying circus demons who have a crazy amount of powers on demon princes?

IF vehicles do not have chapter tactics. Only Iron Hands vehicles were special enough.  Razz 



I'm thinking FMC might make the 0-1 list as well. Along with Riptides/Wraithknights/Helldrakes.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  System Commander on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:34 pm

I could see Blodthirsters, Lord of change being 0-1.. but i cant see FMC in general being 0-1.

Daemon princes... maybe?

Im surprised by the grimoire. Its a pretty big risk for it go off unless youve got Fateweaver around.

I can see Heldrakes, Riptides, Wraithknights on the 0-1 list.

But truthfully.. i would take all changes to smooth things.out.. thats the old comp player in me though. I think the thing i like the most is supplements not being able to ally with their parent. Ive had an issue with that since the beginning.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:39 pm

That is the thing though. Every competitive list with the tome had Fateweaver to guarantee it going off.

Even without the screamerstar a big unit of Khorne Dogs with the tome was a pain for some armies to deal with.

I had intended to say that a lot of FMC are probably being considered for it. I could see Hive Tyrants for example being 0-1 if they have wings.

Although now I'm wondering if buying two Riptides was worth it  Rolling Eyes 

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Roland on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:42 pm

Wonder how the no allying auplemet with parent will work with new nids.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:44 pm

Well with how much of an update people are hoping for, I doubt the codex will be recognizable compared to now.

I am just concerned how my precious Swarmy is going to change. That will be a huge thing determining if I keep playing 'Nids or not.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Rhaevyn on Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:38 pm

I missed those black legion armies there were tearing it up

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:44 pm

Well it was just for the 4th helldrake. Although I think it is more for the 3 riptides + farsight for another riptide with the ECPA.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:48 pm

Grimoire is dumb, it takes my Daemon army and takes it from okay -> pretty good (although not OP, because my list isn't optimal, I like some of the bad things... I'm taking a Burning Chariot on Saturday!)

I like the comments on there that could even be addressed by GW in a FAQ or Errata, "The Grimoire can only affect the invulnerable save granted as part of the Daemon USR. For example, Screamers with Forewarning cast on them affected by a Grimoire would have a 3++ save with re-rolls of 1 due to Tzeentch."

Or

"Units affected by the Grimoire may no longer re-roll unsuccessful saves for any reason"

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  GingerBalls on Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:52 pm

All of those things just make sense, fix what GW broke.

Do we know when they will list the units being restricted to 0-1?

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:53 pm

Coming out soon, apparently.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Planes on Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:00 pm

Could be nifty to give that a test drive when it comes out. Maybe we could run a vanilla event some time to give it a run to see how it plays.

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:01 pm

What is up next after the team tournament?

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:01 pm

Planes wrote:Could be nifty to give that a test drive when it comes out.  Maybe we could run a vanilla event some time to give it a run to see how it plays.

I might run that for my April/May event (I forget which month I'm running a thing)

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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  System Commander on Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:46 pm

It seems odd to ban the item based on one single army type. Screamers with heralds, fateweaver and the grimoire? Yeah.. ugly. Saying fateweavers ability cant be used for the grimoire would be more.logical than banning it outright. This coming from someone who has never used.. i ll take the portalglyph every time.

Grimoire on dogs with a 1/3 of hurting yourself.. thats goofy. Theres no way a big unit of dogs even with the grimoire is overly broken.


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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  System Commander on Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:49 pm

I think Im due in Feb.

I would love to run a heavy comp event.. but for Feb it might be a lower ooint Friday night tourney to kick off a league or something. I would guess maybe 750-1000 points with some bonus league points to kick things off.


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Re: Ban list from Feast of Blades || Added LVO-Poll Link || GW Bans

Post  Aegwymourn on Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:00 pm

System Commander wrote:It seems odd to ban the item based on one single army type. Screamers with heralds, fateweaver and the grimoire? Yeah.. ugly. Saying fateweavers ability cant be used for the grimoire would be more.logical than banning it outright. This coming from someone who has never used.. i ll take the portalglyph every time.

Grimoire on dogs with a 1/3 of hurting yourself.. thats goofy. Theres no way a big unit of dogs even with the grimoire is overly broken.


Well without Fateweaver sure it is a huge crap shoot. But a huge unit of dogs with a for sure 3++ with possibly a herald or two with a turn1/2 charge due to their scout+beast move. You can tie up a lot of stuff with that for a couple of turns. Even if they don't kill anything its a lot of 3++ saves to chew through. Perhaps not broken, but really good against a lot of armies.

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