FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:39 am

So the newest dataslate today is a formation. a formation of Tau Firebase Cadre 1 Riptide and two 3 man broadside units. broadside units that get the Tank hunters and Prefered enemy : Space marines. it gives all space marine opponents Hatred Tau Firebase Cadre.

the big ticket here is that these models do not count towards your allies at all, and you do not need an HQ per regular detachment rules to field them, its just a riptide and 6 broadsides that your eldar can plunk into their army. or a regular tau army that is going to field them anyway, and getting Tank hunters and PE:SM for free...


FORMATIONS
A Formation presents a collection of two or more units that fight alongside one another in a particular way. When you choose an army, you can take a Formation as a special form of Detachment. Unless otherwise stated, you can take any number of Formations in your army, and each is considered to be a completely separate Detachment, regardless of how many units make it up.

Each Formation will tell you what units you need to take and what, if any, options or restrictions apply to the units that make up that Formation. The army list entries for each unit in the Formation (the units’ profiles, points values, unit types, unit composition, special rules, battlefield role etc.) can either be found in the codex corresponding to the Faction on the datasheet, or elsewhere in the dataslate itself.

Allied Formations
Formations do not count as your army’s Allied Detachment, even if they are made up of units from a different Codex to your Primary Detachment, and they do not stop you from taking an Allied Detachment in the same army. However, the Levels of Alliance rules from the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook do apply to them and units chosen from a different codex that are in the same army.

For example, if you included an Ork Formation in the same army as a Primary Detachment from Codex: Space Marines, then the units from the two Detachments would treat each other as desperate allies. However, the Ork Formation would not stop you taking an Allied Detachment in the same army.

_________________
There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.'

Rhaevyn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2465
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 37
Location : Mike Bidyk

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:12 pm

Ya,

This is kinda really good.  Questions I have though, does the formation count as a single unit?  IE: Do they have to maintain coherency and stuff?  It's not really clear.

Otherwise, ya, this is kinda really good.  It's Codex: Tau only, so no Earth Caste Pilot array... not that big a deal.

A plugin Ion-Tide with 6 tank-hunting broadsides?  Yes please.

Edit: And it doesn't take any slots on the FoC. Did they just break 40k?

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:15 pm

Its three separate units.  two units of broadsides and the riptide.

also, it uses the same allies matrix as the tau dex, so you don't even have to be running tau, you could actually use theses guys in your marine army... heh. prefered enemy marines fighting beside marines.

can't troll /tg at work, but i'll have a copy of it by end of day i'm sure.

edit, yeah, they just broke 40k. you can have these guys, AND and an inquisitorial detachment, AND allies.

_________________
There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.'

Rhaevyn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2465
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 37
Location : Mike Bidyk

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Guardian Angel on Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:36 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:
edit, yeah, they just broke 40k.   you can have these guys, AND and an inquisitorial detachment, AND allies.
Break 40k...what do you mean?  They made it better....now everyone needs the best elements from every army.  Just think off all the fun times that will bring.  Take the most broken/powerful unit from every codex.....and look at the super fun army you just made.  Twisted Evil

Guardian Angel
Grandmaster

Posts : 425
Join date : 2008-03-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:41 pm

well, in break 40k, mostly we mean that the FoC really means nothing anymore. But...everything still costs points and you still have only a finite number of points to spend. Meta's will evolve to counter anything that happens. honestly though, we pretty much get excited about nothing. i've faced only one ridiculous GK warband list in all my time playing 40k and i doubt that anyone around here is rushing out to fill thier lists with $300 worth of tau just because they can.

the only thing i really hope is that they move on from tau at some point... and focus on guard, orks, tyranids and DE. wouldn't it be grand to have an entire lineup with rules before the next edition?

_________________
There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.'

Rhaevyn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2465
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 37
Location : Mike Bidyk

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:00 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:... i doubt that anyone around here is rushing out to fill thier lists with $300 worth of tau just because they can.
I *might* :-)

Here in-lies the rub though. Sure, your space marines can include this, or any other army can include this formation without taking an allies slot. It's ~600 points of Tau with ... no marker light support. These things are all BS3.

I get by because I can prescience the riptide. Eldar/SM would be able to have some Prescience/Guide support.

If you're taking this formation, you want an Ion Tide. What does an Ion Tide with no markerlight support do? He misses. He misses a lot.

Now, those Broadsides are twin-linked, they aren't missing. But, they're T4 and squishy (ish), you're forced to have 6 of these. In 1500 points, that means you only have 900 points left for other "good" things, and scoring opportunities.

Now, for my Farsight Army, this might work quite nicely, as I can add an Ion Tide and 2 units of Broadsides, then take a Commander with a Drone Controller and stick him in a unit of Marker Drones, thus solving issues... but they are issues that still need to be solved.

Good, yes. Really Good, probably. Broken... slightly (as it breaks the FoC... as Tau, under a single FoC, I can take 5 Riptides and 6 units of Broadsides)

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:29 am

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1230006a&prodId=prod2290024a

This is $115 cheaper than buying everything on it's own.  So... buy 6 Broadsides, get a free Riptide.

Edit: I'll probably just play them as Farsight Enclaves, not the formation.

two units of suits, commander, two riptides, 6 broadsides | allied farseer and 10 guardians in a wave serpent looks like 1500 points. Massage some wargear and add 10 more guardians in a wave serpent and your at 1750 points of killy killy-ness. (Farseer joins broadsides, takes guide & prescience + a divination roll)

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Paz on Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:10 pm

I, for one, will shake my head at you if you bring this without a tau army. It's silly. Like tau and eldar really need aaaannnyyy more benefits... Seriously.

Paz
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2688
Join date : 2008-03-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:39 am

Paz wrote:I, for one, will shake my head at you if you bring this without a tau army. It's silly. Like tau and eldar really need aaaannnyyy more benefits... Seriously.
I might take it out-of-the book with Farsight. Farsight primary,maybe with a Farseer and some guardians.

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  System Commander on Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:36 am

These formations are hurting ma brain.
But... bundle deals !!

System Commander
System Commander

Posts : 4680
Join date : 2008-02-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:19 am

happy to see bundle deals back. for a while there it was getting ridiculous, some bundles cost more than the individual pieces.

_________________
There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.'

Rhaevyn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2465
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 37
Location : Mike Bidyk

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  GingerBalls on Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:17 pm

Dear GW,

Please stop breaking your own meta.

Sincerely,
Warhammer Community

GingerBalls
Lord of Titan

Posts : 1095
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:46 pm

If one wanted to get into an Iyanden army, it's going to be a good deal.

--

Informed Sara of mass model purchase ($345 + Suits + Kroot), she says, "It's all good." -- crazy.

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Paz on Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:09 pm

I get buying the discount bundles, but the special rules for them are on the edge of r-tarded.

Paz
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2688
Join date : 2008-03-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Lore Weaver on Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:14 pm

Paz wrote:I get buying the discount bundles, but the special rules for them are on the edge of r-tarded.
Ya, all of these things are good enough on their own.

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Rhaevyn on Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:12 pm

Sara's just happy your in her basement playing with plastic dudesmen instead out binging on hookers and blow. you know, like the old days.

_________________
There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.'

Rhaevyn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2465
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 37
Location : Mike Bidyk

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  GingerBalls on Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:27 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:Sara's just happy your in her basement playing with plastic dudesmen instead out binging on hookers and blow. you know, like the old days.
I don't think we'll see those days again. THANKS OBAMA.

GingerBalls
Lord of Titan

Posts : 1095
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  judchic on Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:50 am

Calling it now, one of the formations will be based on the eldar box set from this years Christmas deal.

judchic
Lord of Titan

Posts : 1047
Join date : 2008-10-20
Age : 29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Rhaevyn on Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:29 pm

So the new stormwing formation trades chapter tactics for strafing run(+1BS vs ground) on the stormtalon and sets up a Paradox where you are going to read the below two rules forever and try to understand how they got copy and pasted together on the same document until your brain hurts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Gunship Wing: Do not make Reserves rolls for the Stormtalons. Instead, both Stormtalons count as escorting
the Stormraven Gunship (see the Escort Craft special rule).

2. Escort Craft:
A Stormtalon Gunship can be assigned to escort any friendly unit in reserve from the same
Detachment, with the following exceptions:
• A Stormtalon cannot escort a unit that enters play using the Deep Strike or Outflank special rules.
• One Stormtalon cannot escort another Stormtalon.
A maximum of one Stormtalon can escort each unit.

3. Go back to 1.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1386/23/1386233066737.pdf

_________________
There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.'

Rhaevyn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2465
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 37
Location : Mike Bidyk

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:55 am

They had a good discussion about this on 3++

http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/12/formations-and-their-impact/#more-8670

I basically agree with this. It's not going to be overly silly, but it essentially breaks a core concept of 40k (the FoC). Is it a "big deal" and will you see it in competitive 1500-2000 pt play? Probably not (except for some builds of the Tau formation, because Tank Hunters).

Lore Weaver
Lord of Titan

Posts : 4609
Join date : 2010-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Planes on Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:17 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:So the new stormwing formation trades chapter tactics for strafing run(+1BS vs ground) on the stormtalon and sets up a Paradox where you are going to read the below two rules forever and try to understand how they got copy and pasted together on the same document until your brain hurts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. Gunship Wing: Do not make Reserves rolls for the Stormtalons. Instead, both Stormtalons count as escorting
the Stormraven Gunship (see the Escort Craft special rule).

2. Escort Craft:
A Stormtalon Gunship can be assigned to escort any friendly unit in reserve from the same
Detachment, with the following exceptions:
• A Stormtalon cannot escort a unit that enters play using the Deep Strike or Outflank special rules.
• One Stormtalon cannot escort another Stormtalon.
A maximum of one Stormtalon can escort each unit.

3. Go back to 1.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1386/23/1386233066737.pdf
Actually, I think that this is covered by "Basic vs Advanced rules" on page 7 of the BRB, where in the event that a Basic and Advanced rule contradict, the Advanced one wins.

_________________
I use every part of the Space Buffalo.

Planes
Lord of Titan

Posts : 3142
Join date : 2011-11-27
Location : Mai'laun

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:24 pm

Normally i would agree with you tom. except that the rules are printed in line one inch away from each other in the same tome. so its not a matter of codex vs BRB or most recent rule first.

now. i agree tha tthe RAI is that they both eSCort the Raven and i wouldn't ever pull that on anyone, but its just a matter of GW not proofreading or even stating that this is an exception to the rule. it even references the other rule right there instead of replacing it.

_________________
There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.'

Rhaevyn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2465
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 37
Location : Mike Bidyk

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Planes on Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:34 pm

I think that got over there largely as a copy/paste, so that someone wanting to use the datasheet could do so sans picking up the codex, lowering the barrier to entry needed for someone to pick up that bundle. That being said, this could have been implemented much cleaner.

_________________
I use every part of the Space Buffalo.

Planes
Lord of Titan

Posts : 3142
Join date : 2011-11-27
Location : Mai'laun

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Guardian Angel on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:53 pm

Okay....so I am a bit confused.

Unless I totally missed something, vehicles do not have Chapter Tactics. Do they????? How can the Storm Talon give up something it never had to get Strafing Run??

Did I miss something or just 2 errors on one sheet??

Guardian Angel
Grandmaster

Posts : 425
Join date : 2008-03-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:40 pm

could be thats why the tradeoff isn't as good for stormwing as it was for Tau Cadre. straffing run is cool and all. but its not tank hunters and PE Marines.

_________________
There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.'

Rhaevyn
Lord of Titan

Posts : 2465
Join date : 2011-08-19
Age : 37
Location : Mike Bidyk

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: FORMATIONS AKA DOGS OF WAR

Post  Sponsored content Today at 10:24 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum