Summer league playoffs!

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  GingerBalls on Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:05 pm

Roland wrote:Here's one to make your head spin.

I'm playing Dan in Big Guns.

One of my preds is mobile and 3" from an obj.

On Dan's turn he drive one of his preds within 3" of the obj.

Who controls the obj.? Support your opinion.
Whether you both do or neither of you do, you still score the same amount of points. It's moot.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Planes on Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:26 pm

GingerBalls wrote:
Roland wrote:Here's one to make your head spin.

I'm playing Dan in Big Guns.

One of my preds is mobile and 3" from an obj.

On Dan's turn he drive one of his preds within 3" of the obj.

Who controls the obj.? Support your opinion.
Whether you both do or neither of you do, you still score the same amount of points. It's moot.
That seems far more tactful than my thought of "game breaks, flip table". *snicker*

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Darksfear on Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:56 pm

huh, and here I was thinking that's how tyranid outbreaks start. 2 scoring non-denial units both hold the same point, spawn 2d6 biotitans.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:12 pm

Scoring units are denial units, always.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  System Commander on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:25 pm

I do agree that scoring units should always be considered denial denial units.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Roland on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:25 pm

Mark, reference?

I agree,but on digging I can't find anything.

My respect for the writing in 6th is getting lower and lower.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Roland on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:28 pm

Mark, reference?

I agree,but on digging I can't find anything.

My respect for the writing in 6th is getting lower and lower.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  GingerBalls on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:49 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:Scoring units are denial units, always.
I think it's a question of can you do both at once.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Aengeal on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:26 pm

Roland, on page 123 of the BRB under Denial Units it says "In Eternal War missions, all units (including troops) are denial units, save for a few exceptions given below:" and addresses vehicles and the swarm rule and such.

I can't see anything specifically stating that a unit in control of a objective can not deny another one, though it would be pretty rare to see units big enough to do that with most armies.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Roland on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:37 pm

The issue is due to fast Recon and heavy metal, you will have units that can score but cannot deny. This can lead to wacky interactions, like 20 boys assaulting an (HS) dread, locking it in combat and and still claiming the obj.

How many holes can we poke in this in less than 24 hrs?

There are a lot of holes in the ruleset, and they need shoring up.

My personal opinions:

A unit can claim OR deny a single obj.

A scoring unit is ALWAYS a denial unit.

Units that are made scoring still go thru the chart on pg 123 to determine if they are scoring or not, unless otherwise noted.


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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:43 pm

Roland wrote:Mark, reference?

I agree,but on digging I can't find anything.

My respect for the writing in 6th is getting lower and lower.
You're correct, strict RAW, this is the rules.

--

In big guns, heavy support vehicles are both scoring and not denial units, so they can both claim the same objective.

--

A unit can claim an objective and deny any number of others. (it's not really that hard, if objectives are 12.1" apart, you only need 3 models to do this, 3" + 6" + (base width)x3)

--

There's no FAQ that deals with this, so it's pretty clear (ly written wrong).

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Planes on Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:21 pm

Mai'Laun marches on to the finals.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:43 pm

Round II of my pool is Adam v Tyson.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Roland on Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:20 am

Not sure I could have rolled worse that game. Tom actually had more points on the table at the wnd than he started with.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Guest on Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:25 am

Great Game, Big points were :

Annihilation Barges (SOOO MUCH DAKKA), Smashed Reavers, Void Raven, Wave Serpent, and Reapers
10 Warriors in an Ark: Slew my farseer, but didnt get close enough to really unload

Fire Prism got immobilized on terrain Turn 1!, continued to miss/bounce its shots until Turn 5 where it 1-Shot the Ghost Ark
Hallucination power; Messed up that lichguard Real good! Pinned them, then had them off each other.
Singing Spears! Got 2 barges in one turn with Farseers
Caltrop Launchers!! 2 Reavers survived the tesla barrages, but they pulled off 3 Caltrop attacks for Turns 3-4-5

Also re-killed one of the Overlord characters with a lucky AP1 Liquifier Gun Overwatch wound, that was a little miracle

After the top of Turn 5 I had 3 Objectives VS Mark's 2. We both probably couldn't displace each other even with the optional extra turns, so we called it there.

Soo Tyson, Wats your availability like?

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Darksfear on Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:41 am

As I posted before the best days for me are Tuesdays or Wednesdays.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Planes on Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:03 am

Roland wrote:Not sure I could have rolled worse that game. Tom actually had more points on the table at the wnd than he started with.
I am still baffled by how well this list performs. Even with shit rolls, I should be losing stuff on my side. I don't quite comprehend how I have yet to lose a unit in either of my matchse.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Aegwymourn on Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:06 pm

I dunno Tom. Beau's list is kinda the optimal opponent isn't he? Other than deathwing, which with the silliness of deathmark's ability working with despairteks love. 

No offense Beau but it just doesn't look scary from this side. You have a lot of boxes which give up first blood. And in the meta regular marines (even with power fields and divination) just don't do enough damage.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Planes on Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:13 pm

I'm still of the opinion that between both matches I should have at least lost something in the exchange. By all indications, however, the final is going to be a blood bath.

Any word on what the final mission will be?

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Guest on Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:30 am

Darksfear wrote:As I posted before the best days for me are Tuesdays or Wednesdays.
I have no lab Tuesday because of the short week, so that works better for me. Den closes at 6pm, so if we start at 2pm, we should be able to finish.

How does that sound?

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  System Commander on Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:30 am

Ill have er ready for Wednesday !

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Darksfear on Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:22 am

sounds perfect Adam, see you tuesday at 2.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Roland on Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:25 am

Aegwymourn wrote:I dunno Tom. Beau's list is kinda the optimal opponent isn't he? Other than deathwing, which with the silliness of deathmark's ability working with despairteks love. 

No offense Beau but it just doesn't look scary from this side. You have a lot of boxes which give up first blood. And in the meta regular marines (even with power fields and divination) just don't do enough damage.
No it's not "scary", but my point was more that I was rolling so bad, i probably could have had 3000 points and still lost.

You're absolutely right, Marines are in this weird middle zone now. Is there a TAC list that isn't an autoloss to one of Tau/Eldar/Cron/Daemons or double dragon Chaos marines?

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Aegwymourn on Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:57 am

Roland wrote:
Aegwymourn wrote:I dunno Tom. Beau's list is kinda the optimal opponent isn't he? Other than deathwing, which with the silliness of deathmark's ability working with despairteks love. 

No offense Beau but it just doesn't look scary from this side. You have a lot of boxes which give up first blood. And in the meta regular marines (even with power fields and divination) just don't do enough damage.
No it's not "scary", but my point was more that I was rolling so bad, i probably could have had 3000 points and still lost.

You're absolutely right, Marines are in this weird middle zone now. Is there a TAC list that isn't an autoloss to one of Tau/Eldar/Cron/Daemons or double dragon Chaos marines?
Not really. They don't have a true TAC build that I can think of right now. Since they are the "generalist" army they don't excel at any one thing enough to be able to overcome a bad match up. I have had a dickens of a time with my Black Templars. That is why the only list I have posted so far is just a "for fun" fluffy list. I haven't been able to write up a good tournament/playoff list yet.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Guest on Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:06 pm

I have been theory crafting something to do with Tank Hunting Devastators plus honour guard drop pods... Maybe even some allied guardsmen to build up scoring units.

The big issue keeps being the mobility thing. If VS Eldar, or Tau, I see the army getting out-maneuvered too easily, unless the devastators can really bring down enemy vehicles in the Turn 1 and 2 shooting phases. And then you are still vulnerable to a blitz assault (like Beasts of Khorne unit)

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

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