Summer league playoffs!

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Guest on Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:39 pm

Totally forgot about thanks giving. I will be busy as well.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Darksfear on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:55 pm

alrighty, so after a very close match the psychers of Iyanden (and their tau buddies) managed to overcome the psychers of chaos. Honestly it all pretty much came down to one failed grimoire test (even with fateweavers reroll). We tied on victory points (each controlling 1 objective, I had kill the most expensive unit, he had linebreaker) and it came down to kill points with a final tally of 7 to 4.

So to whomever wins the other match in my pool Tuesdays and Wednesdays are my best bet but if that's not viable we can work something out.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  superdeuxlol on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:56 pm

Tyson I think we got that last ruling wrong. From what I can gather you could only deny or hold a single objective with that one unit, but not both at the same time, since it is all a part of controlling an objective. So I would have been able to control both of the objectives on my side of the table, or just that one while denying you the other if you want to say that you had control over the one that we were both within range of, but then you have 0 objectives... Hmm... Either way an INSANELY close game and I felt completely controlled by that large unit in the center and forced to kite them around the table the entire game which disabled me from getting in range of those broadsides a second time.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Darksfear on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:13 pm

It says in the book that a unit can only "control" 1 objective at a time. The book never mentions that a unit that is controlling an objective cannot also be contesting a different objective, and considering that both the lists for what can't count as scoring and what can't count as denying do not mention that a unit that is controlling an objective stops being a denying unit

You cannot say that a unit that is denying a point also counts as controlling it and hence you can't do both is as the book specifies under scoring units that only troops can control it, meaning denying an objective is not considered the same thing. At least in my opinion.

Either way, very close game and I had a lot of fun playing with you.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  da bear on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:14 pm

It says that a scoring unit can only hold one obj, it doesn't say it can do botb at tbe same time or that it can deny multipul objs, so it comes down to the persons opinion, mine for instance is a single squad can only do one thing at a time deny or score and can only do it to one obj at a time,

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Darksfear on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:16 pm

The only issue I take up with that is that the book never says you can't do both at the same time, as holding an objective is not the same as denying it. The only controlling factor is that the same squad can only control 1 objective at a time, which is an action that only troops can do. Since the book states units other than troops can deny, it has to be something different.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Roland on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:24 pm

By that logic a 30 man boys squad can deny 3 or more obj simultaneously. I say nay.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  System Commander on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:28 pm

My initial reaction is a unit can only control or deny one objective.

I ll look into more.. but this is the first time its come up. No ones ever tried to claim an objective with one unit and deny another objective with the same unit. If your opponent wasnt on the objective .. you definitely wouldnt be controlling it. It doesnt feel right at all. Hmm..

Those orks could control the relic and deny one or two easily. Ive never seen or heard about it being done... i kmow id never even try it.. sounds so .. tricky?

There are lots of things the book doeant specifically say you cant do. You have to weigh logic.. and sportsmanship into it.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Darksfear on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:37 pm

That's where it gets somewhat tricky. Had I known this is how people felt about it, I could have detached a spirit seer from the rest of the squad for the purposes of contestion. Though I don't really see the orc boys contesting and holding as a bad thing myself, considering that they would have to be made vulnerable by stretching out that far, but I can see how people could dislike it. I was just playing by how I read from the book and going by the rules as such for an official game.

Also if the game had gone to turn 6 this wouldn't have even been an issue and we never checked to see if it would go longer either because we had resolved it.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  superdeuxlol on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:39 pm

Holding an objective looks like it is the same as denying an objective in the sense that they are both under the header Controlling Objectives as smaller sub headers which leads me to believe they are both considered ways of controlling an objective. One is just scoring and the other is denying, both are ways to control an objective. And the reason we resolved at the end of turn 5 was the store was closing.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Darksfear on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:41 pm

there is actually no "scoring" an objective. The book specifies its called controlling. Hence controlling and denying are different in this edition.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  da bear on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:48 pm

Ok I cwn see this getting way out of hand, it all comes down to how you feel when you read the rules, tyson is right based on the rules writen but as robyn pointed out and I'm with him on this, not to gang up but my opinion, it doesn't feel right. So I say if both you guys are cool with what you guys decided on for "this" game then cool its over and done with and if this ever does come up again just ask before you make the move

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  System Commander on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:50 pm

If you could separate a seer to contest .. that makes it more reasonable.

However.. only 5 turns for a playoff game? Why only 5? When did you start?

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Roland on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:54 pm

Its unlikely youd ever be talking about more than 2.

I don't see how a unit could protect and asset, while causing enough of a ruckus to deny another. To be blunt, imagine what a scarab farm could do in the scouring.

It may follow the letter of the law, but it sure as hell doesn't follow the spirit, IMO.

Dan, has it 100% right as far as how to handle this.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  superdeuxlol on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:58 pm

6pm LOL I guess we played at a snails pace. I had a lot of decisions on movement phases and there were like a billion psychic abilities a turn. It was a very fun game but really long. And I can agree with Dan as well. Good luck in the rest of the playoffs Tyson.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:25 am

Keep in mind the relic is special. It's controlled by carrying, if I remember correctly. If an HQ joined to a scoring unit picks it up, then leaves the unit while holding the relic (joins an elite, say) he still controls it, and it can't be contested.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Darksfear on Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:19 am

Just to point this out really quickly, I've only been arguing the letter of the law. I don't have any attachment to this rule one way or another. Honestly I don't think I've ever encountered the situation before, which is why the only thing I had to go on at the time was the rulebook. I'm completely happy playing with how the majority wants it to be played.

Though I would just like a quick clarification in case this ever comes up again. Is the change to the rule that a unit cannot deny and control at the same time, or that a unit can only interact with 1 objective at a time?

And Dallas, once again thanks for the game. I did have a blast. I just wish it didn't end in such a distorted manner.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  System Commander on Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:24 am

I wish you guys could have had a full game! I never like seeing games run out of time.. especially for playoffs. Smile

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  System Commander on Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:30 am

Ill make the clarification for upcoming league play.
Its interesting.. while surfing some forums to see if its come up.. i noticed the bigger debate coming.from if scoring units can deny.
For instance.. a land raider is scoring in Big guns. But.. hes not a denial unit... just can control objectives. It appears the confusion arise when a troops choice for example .. moves into 3" of an objective the land raider controls. Its a denial unit and a scoring unit. People are arguing that the troops unit denies the landraider.. and then controls it at the same time.
I dont agree with it.. but it has caused alot of confusion. It is a bit vague in the book ..

We'll house rule it so that 1 unit can only control or deny one objective.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Roland on Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:44 am

Aren't all scoring units denial units?

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Planes on Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:00 am

Roland wrote:I don't see how a unit could protect and asset, while causing enough of a ruckus to deny another. To be blunt, imagine what a scarab farm could do in the scouring.
Holy crap, swarms are no longer barred from scoring in 6th! They just get the blast vulnerability and the movement buffs! This is amazing! I never thought to check up the 6th Ed swarm rule changes until now.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Roland on Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:16 am

Theyre barred from being scoring by pg 123, but I believe fast Recon makes ALL fast attack choices scoring.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Planes on Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:24 am

Hrm, so they just moved where the wrote it. So, does the Scouring supersede it, or would it stay locked out due to swarm status. Scouring/Big guns specifically cite vehicles being able to score despite not being able to normally, but mentions nothing of other unit types/USRs. It would feel kind of silly if on the Scouring Scarabs could claim, but Rippers couldn't.

Go go gadget thread derail!

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Roland on Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:14 pm

Here's one to make your head spin.

I'm playing Dan in Big Guns.

One of my preds is mobile and 3" from an obj.

On Dan's turn he drive one of his preds within 3" of the obj.

Who controls the obj.? Support your opinion.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

Post  Darksfear on Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:02 pm

System Commander wrote:I wish you guys could have had a full game!   I never like seeing games run out of time.. especially for playoffs.  Smile
I wish we could have finished as well, though 6th edition seems to play a lot longer games and that's before factoring in the ridiculous number of psychic powers (33 between the two of us lol). Even 3 hours seems to be a risky time frame.

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Re: Summer league playoffs!

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