New Eldar shifts the meta

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Guest on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:24 am

YAY New Eldar Book!!! Shifts in Eldar meta? What I'm excited about::

In my first readthrough, I did not notice Scorpions Claw lost Powerfist status, so now full init and 2 Weap Fighting. That along with build in Fleet, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, and Stealth is pretty amazing at 17 points a head.

I am really excited about Dark Reapers, they can be 10 man now, and are slow n purposeful, so move n shoot. Ignore Jink Saves. 5 points less than last ed per model (30 now).

And Wave Serpents seem pretty awesome. At 145 points, it is a transport with living metal, 4+ jink normally, downgrade pens to glance 2+ or a D6+1 S7 shots at 5' range that pin and ignore cover which are twin linked if scatter lasers score a single hit. And now BS 4!

As for swooping Hawks, they seem rather awesome to me. 1) Deekstrike without scatter right beside a blocking terrain piece, 2) shoot up infantry squad, 3) battle focus move into cover, 4) Next turn either skyleap, or jump onto a tank and glance it to death. Also, if they do get charged, 10 points for a Power Mace on Exarch, and 15 points for Hit n Run so they can leave melee. 16 points a head.

Jetbike Squads are cheaper and better than last ed. Still a scoring unit. Warlock Bikers 50 points a head and gets a power free. 3 Man bikers with a Shuriken Cannon and a Warlock only 111, looks rather good. Also Warlock Shroud grants 3+ jink, 2+ Turbo boost jink.

Farseer, 100 points, comes with Psy Rating 3. Option to buy Runes, bike for 15 points, and fancy artifacts.

Eldrad, just seems over the top rediculous to me. Psy rating 4, 5+ on cast to regain a warp charge, so you can spam those 2 cost farseer powers. His Staff is now Fleshbane and a Force Weapon at AP 3. If you get Death Mission power Eldrad will become a CC monster with Attacks (1 Base + 1 2 Weapon + 2 Death Mission +d3 Rampage) ~= 6; and WS = BS = I == 10. Even if Death Mission kills him when it ends, statistically he gets 4 counters (d3+2) ever cast and loses one every other phase, so he should only lose 3 (4+ chance of 6 phases between 2 players) before he has an opportunity to recast it with his ~~5 or 6 charge points available. Point cost unchanged at 205.

Guardians are 1 point more for better BS and now pseudo-Rending. Attached Warlock gives them 2+ cover in ruins and 3+ cover in regular terrain.

Wraithlord with Glaive, Scatter Laser, and Bright Lance, 165 points. Small chance to get regeneration power on a warlock to keep it up longer. Seems pretty cool, more attrative than Wraithknight who costs double.

Bright Lances! No stat change but now only 20 points base costs for most that can take it.

Eldar seem to have gotten upgrades across the board from last ed. Everything got cheaper and better.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Aegwymourn on Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:10 am

Where do you see that Dark Reapers have "ignores jink saves"? Also slow and purposeful is rather bad since you cannot overwatch with it.

Also with those Deepstriking swooping hawks that all assumes your opponent has no interceptor guns. Rolling Eyes

I still think the book will be solid. But so far every really powerful combination I've seen from them generally includes quite a bit of luck (generating the right psychic powers) or the opponent generally not having a good 6th TAC list. I only have two decent interceptors and I think that is really low.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Deadlytoaster on Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:20 am

Reapers ignore jink saves thanks to their reaper rangefinders piece of wargear. They're very good at killing bikes and light skimmers now. yes slow and purposeful stinks for overwatch but they can now march up with an army firing as they go. Alternatively you can slam them in a vehicle to get to a good firing point and start shooting the turn they disembark at full BS.

And yes theres still lots wrong with swooping hawks, i would say, if anything, hawks are very situational.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:47 am

A 35 point warlock can take the primaris "Conceal/Reveal" power, which as a blessing gives shrouded, as a malediction, removes it. Here's where the luck comes in, they're LD 8, so you're failing that 10/36 times, with one of those success's killing your Warlock.

Something else that jumped out at me, try writing a list with everything you want to include. You run out of points rather quickly. I think, while this is definitely a stronger book than Chaos Space Marines, list writing will be equally challenging. I'm having trouble, and all I'm locked into right now is a unit of 10 Harlequins from the 90's (which aren't OP now) and an Autarch the kids got me for Father's Day last year.

==

Hawks are bad. Low strength high AP, crappy toughness and armour... what on earth are they good for except harassment and distraction? For the points, I'd take Warp Spiders. Mmmmm Warp Spiders (which are still just average, IMO).

==

Clear winners in this book are the Wraithguard, Wraithblades, Wraithlord, Wraithknight, Striking Scorpions, Crimson Hunter, and the Phoenix Lords (almost all of them, except the Dark Reaper guy, he's horribad)

==

While I agree that the Wave Serpent is very good... I'm wondering how good Footdar might be now. If you're playing Wraithguard or Wraithblades, you have to put them in a serpent, or might as well not have them... Maybe a big fat scoring unit Wraithguard on foot with a spirit seer joined up would be okay... but you're making target priority easy for your opponent if you do this.

==

20 man guardian unit with two support platform jiggers (Shuriken Cannon) for 210 points? Warlock for 35 for Conceal? That's a lot of points. What are the scoring solutions? (Spiritseer and Wraiths, or Guardians in Wave Serpents... or Dire Avengers in Wave Serpents... or Rangers (blech))

==

This is turning into random thoughts now... so I'm gonna stop :-)

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  miv305 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:51 am

I'm shocked no one has mentioned how good Illic Nightspear is...I'll be using him every game (plus it's the coolest model they've ever made!).

Regarding Mark's comments about list buidling, I'm finding it difficult too as there are so many different combos, etc. that I want to fit into a list but can't. Honestly though I consider that a good thing as it means there are plenty of good options and nothing appears to be hugely undercosted (minus jetbikes). Right now I'm assembling a ghost army and I'm really excited to see it on the table!

Following Mark's lead I'm now going to post several random thoughts:

  • Singing Spears are no longer 2-handed

  • Warp Spiders are str 7 against vehicles (except Walkers with I4 or better)

  • A Jetbike Seer Council will ruin any army that doesn't have dedicated assault elements

  • Banshees are the worst unit in the book (run d6+3 wahoo!)

  • Karandras is an absolute beat-stick as are Striking Scorpions

  • Fire Prisms are a TAC dream with 3 different firing modes

There's more but I don't want to reveal everything in the first post Razz

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:04 pm

The Dire Avenger Phoenix Lord seems neat, 2+/4++ and gets D3 warlord traits. Has a S5 AP2 CCW that can potentially "remove from play" a guy (take that, eternal warrior), costs a lot of points.

I agree with Illic, also makes the Rangers useable which solves a non-trivial scoring unit issue that this book seems to have.

I need to double check a few things, but scatter lasers seem to be a good vehicle choice (and Wraith Knight / Wraith Lord) because if they hit, the rest of your stuff is twin linked. My question is, how many guns can a Wraithknight shoot, 2 or 4? No sense giving the guy four guns if he can only shoot two (Two Scatter, Two heavy Wraith Cannons).

I might disagree on the Fire Prisms, due to AV12 squishyness. If you've got other threats, then I agree.

Agreed on Warp Spiders, quickly becoming one of my favorite units.


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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  miv305 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:31 pm

I'm building both Wraithknights with 2 guns each:

1. Suncannon, Scattershield and 1 Scatter Laser
2. Glaive, Scattershield and 2 Shuriken Cannons

The crux of the list I'm currently dreaming up will be Illic infiltrating Wraithguard on your doorstep while 3 MC's (2 of which move 12") run right at you. Should be fun cheers

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Guest on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:23 pm

Why all the Reaper hate?

30 points, 3+ save, sweet gun, and I love the skullface helmets!

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Aegwymourn on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:34 pm

They are a lot of points in the world plentiful good cover saves. Also in their basic for they are only really good at killing basic marines, which is just kinda blah now. There are a lot of things that do it almost as well. To give them the better gun they are now up to what 37/38 points. For what dies like a MEQ, seems like a gamble to me. If you take one round of shooting its a lot of points down the tube.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:45 pm

miv305 wrote:I'm building both Wraithknights with 2 guns each:

1. Suncannon, Scattershield and 1 Scatter Laser
2. Glaive, Scattershield and 2 Shuriken Cannons

The crux of the list I'm currently dreaming up will be Illic infiltrating Wraithguard on your doorstep while 3 MC's (2 of which move 12") run right at you. Should be fun cheers

Both those builds seem really good. I might take a vanilla one. Scattershield is a nice thing to have, 5++ save... I like the Glaive because it looks so sweet.

On a tangent, Scatter Lasers make me want to build things that take advantage of Laser Lock. Too bad it doesn't work with Guardians though, that'd be redonkulous.

I like a Wave Serpent with a Twin-Linked Scatter Laser and a Shuriken Cannon though, seems really good to me. 4 TL S6 shots with 3 more TL S6 shots (assuming one of the first four hit... I'd even shoot at fliers).

There are so many things. I just picked up a battle force and a wraith knight, and I'm basically at 1750 points already. (with my Harlequins, Asurman, and some DA Allies).

I'll pickup the Crimson Hunter and some Warp Spiders and maybe another box of Guardians and that'll be that.

Asurman just... seems so good. The chances of him getting a Tzeench like save is not that low.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Deadlytoaster on Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:03 pm

Well i think Fire prisms are fantastic now. Give them holofields for 15 points and you get a constant 4+cover save if you move an inch in a turn (likely). A str 9 lance weapon is also awesome. (not so special now eh Dark Eldar? Razz ). Lastly i will say with the cover save, AV 12 is really not a serious complaint, this is ELDAR, that is as high of av as we get.....EVER. ok well aside from Apoc (lol Im pertty sure the Phantom Titan is only av 13)

Im debating just giving my wave serpents just scatter lasers because you can only fire 2 weapons if you move 12", so shoot the scatter and drop the shield for your d6+1 shots at str 7 ignores cover. Very Happy

And yes Asurman is way better than he was but Kandaras is my pheonix lord of choice, the change to scorpion claws is too good to ignore. Fuegan is Next in line after that. if you opponent knocks him down to 1 wound and doesnt finish him off, he'll have to deal with a str 7, 7 attacks on the charge with ap1 rage monster lol

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Deadlytoaster on Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:15 pm

Welp touching back on the whole "Eldar changing the meta" The Codex for Iyanden is looking pertty cool all of a sudden. http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=9400002

Kind of excited now, some ramblings about being able to take a Wraithknight as your warlord Shocked

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:23 pm

Holy Shniekies. I'm already locked into Biel-Tan.

"The First in a series of Codex Suppliments" -- Interesting.... Black Templar could be a codex suppliment to Space Marines (or any other chapter for that matter, like Salamanders)

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Deadlytoaster on Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:29 pm

i think we may be getting other Craftworld books there Mark, so maybe hold tight on the Biel Tan theme. Though maybe something like Black Templars, or even some Chaos Warband supplements? i dont know, i guess the possibilities are quite large. All i know is i will be getting this book and am glad i already had an Iyanden list i had planned to start.

Heres the first 750pts (designed to be a complete army in its own right)

Spirit Seer
5x Wraithguard
->Wave Serpent w/Scatter laser
10x Guardians
-> Wave Serpent w/scatter laser
Vyper w/starcannon and Shuriken Cannon
Fire Prism

750 on the dot Smile

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Paz on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:12 am

I just wanna run my wraithknight with base weapons.
Ppl are gonna hate on a t8 mc with 2+ 5++ jump monster that causes blind if you even hit his shield...

I'm thinking of mounting the heavy (she wants the D) cannons straight onto the arms, hands free, Titan style.

That suncannon/shield/scatter laser combo just seems mean.

A vanilla wraithknight is better and cheaper than a tyrannofex, and I found that motherflicker pretty good!

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:26 am

Paz wrote:A vanilla wraithknight is better and cheaper than a tyrannofex, and I found that motherflicker pretty good!

Don't tell Scott, he'll cry himself to sleep. :-)

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Roland on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:44 am

I always thought they were tenacious D cannons.

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