New Eldar shifts the meta

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu May 30, 2013 10:59 am

http://darogscompany.blogspot.ca/2013/05/eldar-codex-sneak-pics.html

Looks like Guardians are still 9 points a piece, but they're WS/BS 4. 9 points for a T3 5+ model, I think they might suffer some of the same issues they had before.

Looks as though you can take an HQ choice that makes Wraith Guard and Wraith Blades troops, and they can still get a wave serpent. They'd pair well with Runes of Battle psykers, especially if they get the +1 Armour power (which doubles as -1 armour... possibilities of this are ... amazing)

Not sure what other org swaps are available.

Fortune allows a re-roll on deny-the-witch rolls. Kinda sweet.

I think Wraith Guard and Wraith Blades are good? 160pts for 5 3+/4++ T6 models with S7 AP2 close combat attacks, but only 1 attack on the profile, or no invul, S6 AP3 2 CCW's...

The shooty ones have a 12" S10 AP2 gun with the distort rule (Auto pens on a 6, auto wounds on a 6 with Instant Death). For 10pts they can swap that for the D-Scythe, which is template, S4 AP2 with the distort rule (ouchies?). I think either of these loaded into a wave serpent is fairly decent.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Aegwymourn on Thu May 30, 2013 11:03 am

dusktiger wrote:they should've worded Doom's description a little better. think theyre saying allies shooting at the affected unit can re-roll failed to-wound rolls and failed attempts to penetrate armour.

Not the way I read it Mike. Any time a "to wound" roll is made against that unit it can be re-rolled. So even allies of convienience can make use of this rule. Or even if somehow your unit gets doomed, and you wound it somehow, you could re-roll the successes to try and get them to fail.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu May 30, 2013 11:09 am

dusktiger wrote:they should've worded Doom's description a little better. think theyre saying allies shooting at the affected unit can re-roll failed to-wound rolls and failed attempts to penetrate armour.

I think it's pretty clear, and pretty good too. This would be fantastic against my AV13 'crons (given brightlances and other S8 shooting).

Not much info on the Wraithknight, 240 points, T8 6 Wounds. It comes with 2 S10 AP2 36" range distort guns, but can only get a 5++ invul save if it drops both for either a ghostglaive (+1S, AP2 Master crafted CCW) or a Suncannon (S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Blast 48").

ws 4 bs 4 s 10 t 8 w 6 i 5 a 4 ld 10 as 3+

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu May 30, 2013 11:13 am

I *think* you could build a 1500 point list with 3-4 units of Wraithguard (or blades), two wraith lords, a wraith knight, and requisite transports and psykers. This list would be kinda good, bump it to 1750 by adding two of those ridiculous fliers. (Two bright lances and a pulse laser? seems good)

Edit: 160 points base, 180 to make him BS5, 190 to make his shots precision on a 5+, you can replace the Brightlances (S8 AP2, Lance) with starcannons (S6 AP2, Heavy 2) for free, pretty sure that's not good.

180 points, 4 S8 AP2 shots at a heldrake hitting on 2's, pretty sure it's going to have a bad time.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Aegwymourn on Thu May 30, 2013 11:22 am

I am really hoping for some awesome Bro-fist action. I can see already where filling gaps in my lists is going to be much easier. The only thing I am still worried about is have good psyker defense. Without Runes of Warding (which as much as I loved them were a bit crazy) I still don't have a reliable way to shut down and opponents powers. I might have to look into allies of convenience (looking at Space Wolves). Blah.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu May 30, 2013 11:27 am

Aegwymourn wrote:I am really hoping for some awesome Bro-fist action. I can see already where filling gaps in my lists is going to be much easier. The only thing I am still worried about is have good psyker defense. Without Runes of Warding (which as much as I loved them were a bit crazy) I still don't have a reliable way to shut down and opponents powers. I might have to look into allies of convenience (looking at Space Wolves). Blah.

High-ish mastery level and fortune isn't bad. Re-rollable 4+ or 5+ is pretty decent, but only for one unit.

Might be more in the book we don't know about. I think there's a one use only rune that bumps your Deny the Witch roll by 2. (5+ -> 3+ | 4+ -> 2+).

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  miv305 on Thu May 30, 2013 11:34 am

I don't think they want reliable (i.e. better than the occassional 4+ DtW roll) Psyker defence in the game anymore tbh. No 6th codex has wargear as silly as Runes of Warding or Runic Staff.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Roland on Thu May 30, 2013 2:07 pm

Isnt the one table the old warlock powers and the other the usual farseer ones?

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Aegwymourn on Thu May 30, 2013 2:28 pm

Roland wrote:Isnt the one table the old warlock powers and the other the usual farseer ones?

More or less.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  dusktiger on Thu May 30, 2013 3:41 pm

Aegwymourn wrote:
dusktiger wrote:they should've worded Doom's description a little better. think theyre saying allies shooting at the affected unit can re-roll failed to-wound rolls and failed attempts to penetrate armour.

Not the way I read it Mike. Any time a "to wound" roll is made against that unit it can be re-rolled. So even allies of convienience can make use of this rule. Or even if somehow your unit gets doomed, and you wound it somehow, you could re-roll the successes to try and get them to fail.

That's what I mean; it almost seems like there's a word or two missing in the sentence. Cause it doesn't say "who" is rerolling. It just says they reroll wounds and pens. So who's rerolling? Everything doing the shooting at the target reroll fails) or the target? (Reroll successes) or, to really tick ya off, rerolls of BOTH the shooters fails and the targets successes?that's what I mean by its worded poorly; they don't tell who is doing the rolling for what. Just that the rerolls are on wounds and pen attempts. The fact they state the pen attempts makes me assume its the shooter getting rerolls, since the targets not rolling pens, but cover saves if he has it. But still, they shud've been more detailed.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu May 30, 2013 3:45 pm

It looks like the mini-version from the rules summary, we'll see what the full wording of the power actually is.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Aegwymourn on Thu May 30, 2013 4:01 pm

I thought it specified in the BRB that whomever is doing the actual shooting (whoever is currently controlling the shooting attack) is the one that rolls to hit and to wound rolls. So that player "can" decide to re-roll whichever dice he wants (since technically you are supposed to roll each attack individually). I don't see why it would work any other way.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  judchic on Thu May 30, 2013 5:39 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:
The shooty ones have a 12" S10 AP2 gun with the distort rule (Auto pens on a 6, auto wounds on a 6 with Instant Death).

str 10 and auto pens on a 6... is there an armor 16+ unit i'm not aware of or is that a bit redundant...?

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Planes on Thu May 30, 2013 5:43 pm

Welcome to the world of the Heavy Gauss Cannon! Str 9, AP 2, and auto glances on a 6!

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  System Commander on Thu May 30, 2013 6:08 pm

What would it autoglance on a 6. Wouldnt all 6's just be pens? Just making sure I aint thinking crooked.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Planes on Thu May 30, 2013 6:25 pm

The only time it would ever be invoked would be if the weapon was afflicted by some war gear or psychic power that reduced it's strength.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Roland on Thu May 30, 2013 7:24 pm

I'd just like to point out that the Eldar fighter is 180. Same as a nephilem jetfighter. Roughly the same as a helldrakes.

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong...

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Aegwymourn on Thu May 30, 2013 8:09 pm

Roland wrote:I'd just like to point out that the Eldar fighter is 180. Same as a nephilem jetfighter. Roughly the same as a helldrakes.

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong...

I know what you mean Beau. My fighter costs 145 and my bomber costs 160. Just makes me wonder. They must have heard that I don't like fliers and made them rubbish.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu May 30, 2013 8:12 pm

judchic wrote:
Lore Weaver wrote:
The shooty ones have a 12" S10 AP2 gun with the distort rule (Auto pens on a 6, auto wounds on a 6 with Instant Death).

str 10 and auto pens on a 6... is there an armor 16+ unit i'm not aware of or is that a bit redundant...?

They have the same rule on the S4 AP2 flamer

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Aegwymourn on Thu May 30, 2013 10:32 pm

If they can get a decent number of weapons with the ID rule its going to seriously cut down on some of the Monstrous Creature spam that has been going on.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Paz on Thu May 30, 2013 11:15 pm

My question is, why would you ever take wraith guard with the wraith cannons and not the scythe? An ap2 flameer is sooooo much better

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Necron Camper on Thu May 30, 2013 11:26 pm

I don't really mind wraiths or elder as long as there AP is low so my doom scyth can do some damage Very Happy
Just saying
But I would take the flamers in my opinion

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Thu May 30, 2013 11:57 pm

Paz wrote:My question is, why would you ever take wraith guard with the wraith cannons and not the scythe? An ap2 flameer is sooooo much better

Strength 10, non-template, and it costs 10 pts a Wraithguard for the upgrade. 160 points for 5 guys with S10 guns. Only downside is it's practically required to put them in a Wave Serpent because of the short range (same with the flamers too).

I totally agree on the S4 AP2 flamers though, that's pretty darned good.

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  miv305 on Fri May 31, 2013 10:13 am

The Wave Serpent tax isn't so bad anymore since they're going to be tough to bring down. Not sure if people are aware but basically it's energy shield turns pen's into glances on a 2+.

I'm not too keen on the flamer guys tbh, str 10 ap2 that insta-gibs on a 6 is pretty hawt! I think Eldar is going to have 0 trouble dealing with 2+ saves (on account of Bladestorm) and won't really need the flamers. I feel sad for the GK/DA players (myself included as I have both armies) who are in for a rough time come Saturday...

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri May 31, 2013 10:22 am

One thing I don't get. Bladestorm *is* rending, right? What's the difference between the two?

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Re: New Eldar shifts the meta

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