Festering Grudge! 2000pts

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Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Planes on Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:02 pm

Finally getting my Grudge Match in versus Tom this coming weekend, and the 'Crons are trading in their Knights for Chaos! The Aegis Defense Line is for cowards and people that don't have to worry about laser pointers being shot into their optical receptors, they say.

HQ:
Typhus. 230 pts

Troops:
Plague Marines x7, Plasma Gun x2, Chaos Rhino, Havok Launcher. 245 pts

Plague Marines x7, Plasma Gun x2, Chaos Rhino, Havok Launcher. 245 pts

Heavy Support:
Forge Fiend. 175 pts

MoN Oblits x2. 152 pts

MoN Oblits x2. 152 pts

Allied HQ:
Necron Overlord, Destrotek x4, Necron Lord with Orb, Semp Weave, and Gauntlet of Fire. 315 pts

Allied Troops:
Necron Warriors x17, Ghost Ark. 336 pts

Allied Elites:
Triarch Stalker. 150 pts


The general goal is to torrent out Str 7-9 while simply not dieing. Oblits have their T5 2+/5++, Plague Marines get to hide in a box for a turn, and are then T5 3+/FNP, and the Warriors res on a 4+ with an Ark backing them for even more Get Back Up. I think in future iterations I'll swap the Forge for a Mauler and try to work some Wraiths back in, but this is nice and shooty for the time being.

Let's see what that silly new Codex of yours can do now, Tom!

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Aegwymourn on Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:07 pm

Here is what I am thinking of running Tom. I took the 1750 list I am trying to build and dropped another 250 points on it =P

(anything marked with an * I would have to proxy as I don't have it, if that's a problem let me know and I'll switch it out with something, or change up my list)

Commander 4 5 5 5* 4 3 4 10 2+/5+++
Missile Pod, Fusion Blaster, Advanced Targeting System, Stimulant Injector, Iridium Armor, Neuroweb System Jammer; Puretide Engram Neurochip; Shield Drone x2



Ethereal 4 3 3 3 2 3 3 10 -

Fire Warriors (12) 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 7 4+

Fire Warriors (12) 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 7 4+

Fire Warriors (12) 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 7 4+

Fire Warriors (12) 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 7 4+

Kroot Carnivore Squad (16) 4 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 6+
Sniper Rounds

XV8 Crisis Team (3) 2 3 5 4 2 2 2 8 3+
Plasma Rifle x3, Fusion Blaster x3, Vectored Retro-Thrusters x1

XV104 Riptide 2 3 6 6 5 2 3 9 2+/5++
Twin-linked Fusion Blaster, Ion Accelerator, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker


* XV104 Riptide 2 3 6 6 5 2 3 9 2+/5++
Twin-linked Fusion Blaster, Ion Accelerator, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker *


Pathfinder Team (9) 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 7 5+

Tetra Team (2) 3 10 10 10 2

Tetra Team (1) 3 10 10 10 2

Hammerhead Gunship 4 13 12 10 3
Railgun; Twin-Linked Smart Missile System; Submunition Rounds; Blacksun Filter

*Hammerhead Gunship 4 13 12 10 3
Railgun; Twin-Linked Smart Missile System; Submunition Rounds; Blacksun Filter*

*Sky Ray Missile Defence Gunship 4 13 12 10 3
Two Networked Markerlights; Six Seeker Missiles; Twin-Linked Smart Missile System*

Not tones of new stuff but some things I would really like to try out! Now I just want to play dang-it!


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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Planes on Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:55 am

Things learned from the match:

The new Tau 'dex is really solid.

Typhus is a freaking rock star who simply emits a radius of death. Doubly awesome when aggressively deep struck in with an Obliterator honor guard.

Obliterators are solid, especially with Mark of Nurgle.

17 Necron Warriors led by an Orb Lord and backed by a Ghost Ark, while incredibly durable, is rather expensive for a back field objective holder. Especially so when on most turns nothing is in range for them to shoot.

Triach Stalkers need to live in Primary Detachments.

Havok Launchers on Rhinos just seem to waist points.

There is a world of difference between BS 3 and BS 4, that forge fiend couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, or a barn side of a Broadside.

Plague Marines, while decent, simply cannot hold up to an entirety of an army unloading upon them.


All in all, I felt that the Necrons weren't really carrying their weight in this list, especially given that with Typhus already in the list, I had a much cheaper option for back field damage sponges. Between that and my Plague Marines getting ripped the shreds, I felt that the supporting army needed to change it's role to something more pro-active. As a result, this list happened.


HQ:
Typhus. 230 pts

Troops:
Plague Marines x7, Plasma Gun x2, Boon, Rhino. 243 pts

Plague Marines x7, Plasma Gun x2, Boon, Rhino. 243 pts

Plague Zombies x20. 90 pts

Fast Attack:
Heldrake, Baleflamer. 170 pts

Heavy Support:
Mauler Fiend. 125 pts

MoN Obliterator x3. 228 pts

Allied HQ:
Destroyer Lord, Weave, Scarabs. 160 pts

Allied Troops:
Tesla Immortals, Night Scythe. 270 pts

Allied Fast Attack:
Canoptek Wraiths x6, Whip Coils x3. 240 pts

Total: 1999 pts


It is starting to look like Wraith-Wreck is becoming a standard ally module for me, but I do find it effective at rapidly pushing into my enemy's deployment along side another threat from the Primary detachment. Ideally it should take the heat off the Plague Marines long enough for them to lodge themselves upon an objective or otherwise become an issue. The Heldrake, by all reports, is simply good and a straight up Chaos staple. Immortals in a Scythe is always just goof for last turn/emergency objective taking.

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Aegwymourn on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:46 am

Planes wrote:Things learned from the match:
There is a world of difference between BS 3 and BS 4, that forge fiend couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, or a barn side of a Broadside.

After playing Space Marines for long and jumping to Tau I will agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. If your dice are not hot BS3 is really bad.

I think you summed up the game fairly well, although you failed to mention Typhus lost his last wound to being stepped on by a Riptide Razz who I imagined basically going "ahhh a spider!" and stomping on him. I think it will be interesting using the Plague Marines in Rhinos supporting your D-Lord/Wraith and Mauler Fiend push. And yes, Dragons are just too good to not find at least 170 points on one. At 2k I would almost argue two are mandatory. I would suggest though breaking that unit of 20 zombies into two units of 10 and putting them in reserve every game. I really don't think it would hard to remove 20 T3 guys with dirty shirt saves and FNP who can't go to ground.

I also did like when I got 9 markerlights on your one squad of Plague Marines and made my "Gone to Ground" Kroot shoot at BS5 Twisted Evil. Still only killed 3 of them but funny none the less.

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Planes on Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:37 am

Conversely, said Riptide managed to get a 2 on a Move Through Cover roll, tripping over itself. Both of them kept forgetting to use their oven mitts when handling the reactor, as well.

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Rhaevyn on Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:35 pm

Baleflamer dragons are an auto-include. Mark will let you in on how useful a dragon with a Hades is. Smile and yes, BS 3/4 makes a big difference, said hades autocannon would be so much better if every model capable of carrying it wasn't force fed daemonic possession. (150 point drake or Forge Fiend, BS 4. would have to worry about being shaken...)

I do find that I'm always strapped for points when playing Double-Dragon. even at 1750 the rest of the army feels thin.

Rhinos sucking is true across all armies, not just CSM, the rhino with the havoc launcher is OK in 50% of games, (or more, depending how often you play against imotek) that long range shot to plant a searchlight on something comes in useful fairly often for me.

The wraith/lord unit wins games all by itself, so including it as a standard ally plug and play is going to be a no brainier Smile

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:32 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:Baleflamer dragons are an auto-include. Mark will let you in on how useful a dragon with a Hades is. Smile and yes, BS 3/4 makes a big difference, said hades autocannon would be so much better if every model capable of carrying it wasn't force fed daemonic possession. (150 point drake or Forge Fiend, BS 4. would have to worry about being shaken...)

I do find that I'm always strapped for points when playing Double-Dragon. even at 1750 the rest of the army feels thin.

Rhinos sucking is true across all armies, not just CSM, the rhino with the havoc launcher is OK in 50% of games, (or more, depending how often you play against imotek) that long range shot to plant a searchlight on something comes in useful fairly often for me.

The wraith/lord unit wins games all by itself, so including it as a standard ally plug and play is going to be a no brainier Smile

Dragon with Hades = Fun
Dragon with Baleflamer = Wins Games

I don't think in our game Mike, given the situations, the baleflamer would've won it for me, as I didn't have any scoring units on your objective, however, you'd've had *no marines* down there.

They did, however, win you the game. Straight up.

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Planes on Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:53 am

I ran a 1750 version of the list through a double header with Mark and Adam. Here's what hit the field.

HQ:
Typhus. 230 pts

Sorcerer, Mastery 3, MoNurgle, Bike, Spell Familiar, Black Mace. 205 pts

Troops:
Plague Marines x7, Plamsa x2, Boon, Rhino. 243 pts

Plague Marines x7, Plamsa x2, Boon, Rhino. 243 pts

Plague Zombies x21. 94 pts

Fast Attack:
Heldrake, Baleflamer. 170 pts

Chaos Bikers x7, MoNurgle, Meltagun x2. 212 pts

Heavy Support:
Maulerfiend. 125 pts

Obliterator x3, MoNurgle. 228 pts

Total: 1750 pts

I really like how Typhus and his body guard works in this list. The Sorcerer and his retinue, however, do not fair as well. I love the concept of the highly mobile Nurgle Sorcerer, but the Black Mace never got to get a swing off. I think I might agree with Adam that the biker blob just makes itself too big of a target, and there is an upper limit to what T6 can do, even with a Jink save and Power Armour. Mauler Fiend just takes all the high Str shooting to the face all the time, and one can only make so many 5+ saves, really makes me wish I could mark my Daemon Engines. Zombies were generally outstanding for their point cost in both matches.


From those defeats, this new list will be rising from the ashes for play testing soon.

HQ:
Typhus. 230 pts

Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Mastery 3, Wings, Spell Familiar. 290 pts

Troops:
Plague Marines x7, Plasma x2, Rhino. 233 pts

Plague Marines x7, Plasma x2, Rhino. 233 pts

Plague Zombies x18. 82 pts

Fast Attack:
Heldrake, Baleflamer. 170 pts

Chaos Bikers x3, Melta x2, MoNurgle. 108 pts

Heavy Support:
Maulerfiend. 125 pts

Maulerfiend. 125 pts

Obliterator x2, MoNurgle. 152 pts

Total: 1748

Knowing that a singular Maulerfiend takes all the Las and Auto Cannons to the face round one, a pair should have at least one survive long enough to threaten the enemy deployment. Ideally between this and Cthulhu over-head, the scoring portion should be able to push their way forward with generally less hatred directed at them for the first turn or two. Conversely, if my Plague Marines get scoured from the table first, my Mauler Fiends contact and start racing to purge all the enemy scoring prior to me losing my Zombies. The flying Nurgle Prince lets me retain a Mastery Three psyker while gaining the silly mobility of a FMC. Further, being a Nurgle FMC means his Jink save sits at 3+ rather than the typical 5+, being generally more survivable against most armies that are not Tau. Bikers maintain roughly the same amount of punch as their previous incarnation, still having a pair of Meltas, but the lower body count should hopefully draw less visual attention, especially when on the same table as Cthulhu.

My biggest concern about this list currently, barring having to finish models for it, is that it has 12 total kill points available, which is starting to get up there should I ever roll that mission. I just hope that being dispersed like this lets me return fire more effectively than it can be returned to me.

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Aegwymourn on Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:40 pm

While you do have 12 killpoints Tom I would point out that just about everything in your army is fairly durable. About the only downside I can think of with your list is that you are probably going to cough up first blood every game unless you can win first turn and kill something (looking at the 3 bikers and the Rhinos for this). Other than that I think its a good list. Can't wait for another rematch!

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:58 pm

12 points is alot; that is about how much my guard army fields, which I agree may be a bit high.

my chaos guard+marines 1750
3 HQ
1 Elite
4-5 Troops (I can combine squads if I want)
2 Fast
3 Heavy Support
1 Bastion (not counted)

so 13-14 depending on if I combine squads.

I suggest removal of the rhinos completely for another something. If concerned about kill points, I would buy veterans for oblits, some more zombies, and maybe teh Black mace for your demon prince (he makes it AP2 in CC cuz hes a MC)

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Aegwymourn on Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:07 pm

Really though everyone except maybe Draigowing and Deathwing are going to be rocking 8-10 kill points at least. Most of my Tau lists have at least that many points and are not made up of anything nearly as durable as plague marines or demon engines or obliterators. My current 1750 "competitive" list has 14 killpoints plus the bonus point if you kill the ethereal. The only time you would have to worry IMO is a tournament that was going to run a killpoint mission on its own without any other objectives. Since most run at least two book missions at a time plus secondaries I don't see it being a huge issue. As long as you don't have super easy points to give up.

I'm in favor of keeping the Rhinos. While they almost always give up first blood it means that your opponent has to kill it to get to the juicy troops inside. For how few troops you are running and relying on them participating I think they add another layer of good durability to them.

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Planes on Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:58 pm

I'm also starting to toy around with the idea of running Typhus and 70 Zombies as an ally module for 530 points. Zombies just do their thing and slowly shamble across the field while the Primary Detachment does it's thing.

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Roland on Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:33 pm

My Dw list is 12 kp @ 2000. My ultras are rocking 17.

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:49 am

My Double-D AV13 'cron build is 12 KP at 1750 points.

Orksies run at 15-ish KP at 1750. ||

Tom, if you're allying in Chaos, you want to plug in a Dragon and a unit of Oblits or a Maulerfiend. Zombies is a pretty good choice for your mandatory troop, but they're mandatory.

What I'd be tempted to do in your list is...

4x10 units of zombies (keep some in reserve if you roll KP's), then max out on your other threats. That bike unit is *really good*, I'd be tempted to leave the bike sorcerer at lvl 1 though, to keep his points down, and just roll the one time on Nurgle. You can also leave him un-marked and roll on Biomancy 1, 2, or 3 times. With the Nurgle bikes, you'll still be majority T6, and your champion can eat a challenge if you like. Alternatively, you could take Fisty-Claw Lord on a bike with MoN, and give bike champ Fisty-Claw too. That unit is scary! Fisty-Claw is the best thing ever.

==

I'm not sure what the kids are doing with Typhus. That's a brain teaser. Do people run him up in a Land Raider or something? Or is the point of Typhus that he's a hard to kill Warlord that makes your cultists less sucky? I'm not sure deep-striking him with Oblits is the thing to do, because Oblits are kinda awesome on their own, and should be left to do their thing (alpha strike shooty). Always buy VotLW for them!

==

The overall trick to that book is maxing out the cool stuff in Fast Attack and Heavy Support. You're doing well with the Bikes, Dragon, Oblits, Maulerfiend. You could potentially take another Maulerfiend so that one of them gets in there every game. I've played a Forgefiend enough to know how easy AV12 with a 5++ gets blown up on Turn 1 to cough up first blood!

Anyway, keep having fun with it, learn from what doesn't work and make tweaks along the way.

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Roland on Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:52 am

The problem I've seen with Mauler/forge fiends.

I classify both those as "ignore at your own peril" if you give either time to do its things it will mess you up, it only needs a few turns to do so,.... And both are squishy for the points (the forgefiend especially so.) Just about anything you'd rate higher is either in reserve (stakes, suicide Termies, ds oblits) or are competition in the ha slots. In short, they are fire magnets, and do not have the av or hp to be so.

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Re: Festering Grudge! 2000pts

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:50 pm

Roland wrote:The problem I've seen with Mauler/forge fiends.

I classify both those as "ignore at your own peril" if you give either time to do its things it will mess you up, it only needs a few turns to do so,.... And both are squishy for the points (the forgefiend especially so.) Just about anything you'd rate higher is either in reserve (stakes, suicide Termies, ds oblits) or are competition in the ha slots. In short, they are fire magnets, and do not have the av or hp to be so.

100% Correct.

You can always put a Forgefiend in Reserve, which I have done a few times.

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