Missions and Scoring

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Missions and Scoring

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:45 am

I've been thinking a bit about army list generation and the amount of scoring units that one should take at different point values.

Out of all the new missions, 5 of them are objective based. On first glance, you'd think that you'd need a lot more scoring than you did in 5th edition (where 2/3 were objective based, one of those having only 2 objectives).

I'm not so sure anymore.

Here's a breakdown.

1 Mission with D3+2 objectives (between 3-5). This is where you need the most scoring units.

1 Mission with D3+2 objectives, but Heavy Support counts as scoring. You're looking at getting an additional 0-3 scoring units. Most armies have at least one heavy option.

1 Mission with SIX objectives, of varying value. This one's a bit goofy. How important is it to get the 1 pointer and the 2 pointers? Your fast attack counts as scoring, not all lists add a fast attack, and flyers still won't hold an objective (too high off the ground to be within 3" of the table, need to deploy objectives on 2nd floor of the ruins or something)

1 Mission with 2 objectives, one in each zone. I'd argue that your two base troop choices are enough here.

1 Mission with 1 objective. Do you really need 6 scoring units? This game can easily be decided by first blood, slay the warlord, and line breaker.

1 Mission that's killpoints. Squishy scoring units are your downfall here.

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So all in all, having a tonne of scoring units is probably only important for two of the missions, Crusade and the Scouring. Otherwise, it's much ado about nothing.

Consider Thiessen's 1750 Dark Angels.

2 HQ's + 1 Command, 2 Elites (Termies), 2 10-man tac squads, 2 MSU Bikes, 1 Devastator Unit. Am I hamstrung by not taking Azreal to make the termies and bikes troops? I don't think so. Sure it'd be better, but it's also 70 points more expensive than Thiessen's current build using Ezekial and a stand-alone libby as HQ.

If the two 10-man tacticals can hold an objective each, the rest of the army can worry about killing stuff and contesting the rest, or combat squad 'em and hold 3 (if 5 objectives are rolled and 3 are in my deployment zone, although putting one in the middle to get my opponent to go for it is tantalizing)

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Thoughts?

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Re: Missions and Scoring

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:29 am

I think it really depends on what you expect each unit to do. and how durable it is. also, what the game plan is. if you expect to table your opponent on turn three, then your base two troops choices is just fine....

I've been playing the old rule of 1 scoring unit per 500 points. and it usually works for me. i dont think its that simple, and i doubt it can be simplified down to an equation. unless you want to go codex by codex.

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Re: Missions and Scoring

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:32 am

Rhaevyn wrote:I've been playing the old rule of 1 scoring unit per 500 points. and it usually works for me. i dont think its that simple, and i doubt it can be simplified down to an equation. unless you want to go codex by codex.

I think this is right. You don't really need more than you needed in 5th. Some codex's will be different. Marines and Orks spring to mind.

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Re: Missions and Scoring

Post  Guest on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:35 am

Although I try to max Troops as much as possible I have also been wondering about how important that is.

For Space Marines, I think it is less significant that you have only 2 tactical or scout squads because of razorbacks and combat squads. 2 Troops in that case is really 4 if you want it to be.

For Dark Angels,, I have not yet read the codex, but from playing Orks, I would have to say that Bikes being troops does tend to win a lot of games. Meganobz being troops feels less significant cuz they are not as fast and tend to be dead by turn 5 (people don't like that much powerklaw).

So, I do not know how expensive it is to unlock bikers as troops. For Wazdakka I found that you are paying almost a 20 point premium over a warboss counting to 140 I find -->

1 less S =~ 10 points, No Cybork = 10 point loss == 20 point loss (Mega blasta and meks tools I consider not too useful)
Then to Wazdakka's 180 cost, I count adding 4 rokkits to one model.



SOOOOO, what premium over a similar Biker Captain does one pay to unlock biker troops? if its <30 points, its probably worth the upgrade. As for termies, if your paying extra to make em troops I'd say its not as important as they arn't fast enough.

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Re: Missions and Scoring

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:43 am

In Crusade you're looking at, potentially, 2 objectives in your opponents zone. In Emperor's Will, 1, Scouring... who knows.

So you have 2 missions where you really need the speed to score? If your slow, you must have survive-ability to keep that objective.

30 boyz or 30 grots in cover fit the bill (I'll typically run 20 grots with a Big Mek and SAG).

Having the 'fast' MegaNobz in a Trukk, or Wazdakka biker troops, or Nobz in a Battlewagon are all adept at getting into the opponents zone, but they do need support.

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Re: Missions and Scoring

Post  Roland on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:49 am

I'd think (1 less than what you think you need per 5th) is prob doable.

I'm pretty comfortable with 4 troops at 2000 and 3 @ 1500.

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Re: Missions and Scoring

Post  Roland on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:59 am

Sammael is the only way to unlock Bike as troops in DA. He's 200 even. Is a 3W, WS6 BS5 3+/4++ Jetbike with a Plasma Cannon/TL Stormbolter and a Str4, AP2 Power Weapon worth it? Seems like it to me.

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Re: Missions and Scoring

Post  Matthew G on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:06 pm

Roland wrote:Sammael is the only way to unlock Bike as troops in DA. He's 200 even. Is a 3W, WS6 BS5 3+/4++ Jetbike with a Plasma Cannon/TL Stormbolter and a Str4, AP2 Power Weapon worth it? Seems like it to me.

Not just Sammael... Azrael also can, but he unlocks Deathwing AND Ravenwing as troops.

But to add my comments... When I was collecting my limited bikes pre-DAcodex I had priced out a Bike captain with Artificer armor, meltabombs, with PF on a bike, he came to 175pts.
For the extra 25points you get Sammael... SIGN ME UP - that dude is pimp now....
Str4 AP2 Sword, Plasma cannon, Eternal Warrior, 4++, Skilled rider.... And then you put him with a Black KNight command squad as he is Independant Character now... Hellz ya

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Re: Missions and Scoring

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:09 pm

My *only* gripe about Sam is his 3+ armour save. If you can pile the wounds on, dude's gonna die (a bit of an "if" there).

At least he's got Eternal Warrior.

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Re: Missions and Scoring

Post  Matthew G on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:18 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:My *only* gripe about Sam is his 3+ armour save. If you can pile the wounds on, dude's gonna die (a bit of an "if" there).

At least he's got Eternal Warrior.

Sam Moves... 5+ Cover (jink)
Skilled Rider... 4+ Cover
Turbo Boosts... 3+ cover...
Dark Shroud... 2+ cover...

And then Sam tanked everything.... Look out sir anything that is annoying to the champion of the ravenwing command... Ugh, Im going to paint that champion of mine with a red shirt.. He'll be the first to die in almost every game... why did they have to make the blade of Caliban unweildly.... Str+1 AP3 unweildly... Relic Blades retarded older sibling

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Re: Missions and Scoring

Post  Roland on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:31 pm

Matthew G wrote:
Roland wrote:Sammael is the only way to unlock Bike as troops in DA. He's 200 even. Is a 3W, WS6 BS5 3+/4++ Jetbike with a Plasma Cannon/TL Stormbolter and a Str4, AP2 Power Weapon worth it? Seems like it to me.

Not just Sammael... Azrael also can, but he unlocks Deathwing AND Ravenwing as troops.

But to add my comments... When I was collecting my limited bikes pre-DAcodex I had priced out a Bike captain with Artificer armor, meltabombs, with PF on a bike, he came to 175pts.
For the extra 25points you get Sammael... SIGN ME UP - that dude is pimp now....
Str4 AP2 Sword, Plasma cannon, Eternal Warrior, 4++, Skilled rider.... And then you put him with a Black KNight command squad as he is Independant Character now... Hellz ya

Absolutely correct, my bad

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