Successful CSM army

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Successful CSM army

Post  Timbo on Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:46 am

There's an interesting CSM list Reecius mentions in a newish BoLS article that placed highly at a 30 man event full of top players. CSM players take note:

www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/11/40k-imperial-vox-caster-tournament-recap.html

Bare minimum troops. Kharne manning a quad gun. 300 point daemon prince. It all sounds very strange.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Aegwymourn on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:01 am

Possibly due to modified missions? He mentions that every mission has KP as secondary and that they did modify the standard missions a bit. Doing things like that tends to skew army list results.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:13 am

Double-Dragon
msu marines in havoc rhinos. 112-127 points.
Fearless cultists behind a quad gun that you can't assault, because Kharn.

Then that huge expensive daemon prince.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  UglyDuckling on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:54 am

It seems like a complete mishmash of units but it seems very smart and well balanced.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:12 am

Hey now i've been championing the defensive Kharne army for at least 6 months.

http://huntersofthewarp.forumakers.com/t3114-kharne-bubble

I don't think KP as a secondary objective would help very much with his list building. The rhinos and msu csm squads would make for easy targets.
I think the reason his list works is because he Chaos-theoried himself into the logic that csm troops suck balls and investing any more points than necessary into them reduced the effectiveness of his list. he chose cost effective HS choices, spent the minimum he could on trooops, and put points into a triple flyer threat. He probably got first blood every game with his quad gun and Lascannon preds. and then had 2-3 durable flyers coming on the table that were immediate threats.

I'm not sure about the 300 point DP. Hes a beast, but hes only T5. I guess if the opponent uses his skyfire to take out the prince, the dragons get to eat up more troops.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  System Commander on Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:26 am

I liked his list.. But the dp still seems pretty bonkers for that many points.. Jnless hes hiding.him or something until the drakes show up to give a few different targets. My dp rarely died in combat.. Was always shooting.tk worry about and like you said.. Tgh 5 and 4 wounds can go.pretty fast, especially when you cant hide.

I w ant to give him a try sometime.. Just have to prepare the dissapointment Smile i played my buddy and he was using a 250 ooint flying tzeentch prince and he was.dead on turn 1.. Doesnt .ake me to optimistic


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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:27 am

First turn zoom, you're hitting him on 6's and then you have to hope he fails that grounding test.

Second turn, that monster's assaulting. It's a lot of points for T5, 3+/5++ Is it Tzeentchy so it can re-roll it's 1's?

Edit: See Robyn's point above. T5 is still squishy. You need to get first turn, or put him in Reserve?


Last edited by Lore Weaver on Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Roland on Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:27 am

Flying Mace DP-300ish
Kharn -160ish
3x5 CSM in Rhinos (2 Havoc L, 1 DC and DB)- 360ish
16 Cultist-75ish
2x Heldrakes-340
2x Las/Las Pred-140 ea
Havocs w/4 AC?-115
Aegis Line w/ Quad-100

Total: 1730ish? Im guessing this was supposed to be a 1750 list. Anybody know what the tourney was running?

Mike B: It doesn't say exactly WHAT the DP was kitted out with. Biomancy could really buff him. Robyn and I were talking about this, rather than being efficient with the DP, you max him and hope the psychic powers fall well.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Lore Weaver on Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:29 am

I'd be tempted to put a plasma gun in those 5 man units, as it can shoot from the hatch at a respectable 24".

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  System Commander on Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:49 am

I played my buddy and he brought tzeentch DP. He zoomed the first round in front of my lines.. Ready to assaylt tjrn 2. I shot all i had at it.. Did one would and he was still flying. Had a rhino and predator left. Fired the cmbi bolter.. Got ahit.. No wound but he finally failed his grounding test.. Took a wound on the way down. The predator hit him woth three lascannons and finshed him off.

Now.. Thats the worse case scenario and old book tactics. I used to fly my dp up all the time, try to find a bit of cover and absorb shots. That was his whole job.. Just keep the guns away from the other stuff. When he was 140 points that was fine.. At 200+ hes not exendable anymore and have.to really think about qhat to do with him.

I like an exensive one with a couple drakes.. Or even with daemon allies.. ?

Im still curious how a 2 dp, 1 heldrake list would work. Prob crappy.. But with psychic powers, both with biomancy for examole.. Could be scary. I really wanna give er a try.

Im sure itll end badly.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:51 pm

i love this quote from the comments section

You lost me at, 'And this gentleman also beat Dave, but Dave's high paint score secured him best overall.'

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  judchic on Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:58 pm

But that's what best overall is... Highest combined paint/ general score. Then there is normally best general and best painted. Or am I crazy?

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Rhaevyn on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:09 pm

By all means, give credit to best painted. its a miniatures hobby Smile

However, I find that if player A goes undefeated. and beats player B. the points shouldn't work out that player B can win best overall.

maybe i just dont like "best overall" awards in general.

But hey, that's just me.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Aegwymourn on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:18 pm

Don't forget sportsmanship. I have been to events that weight it just as highly as painting. Can throw quite a curveball into scoring.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  judchic on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:18 pm

In that case player A would win best general (or should) and player b would get best overall. I think the problem is that best overall sounds like a better title than best general. Best general should win overall and there should be some prize for best overall.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Roland on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:38 pm

Best Overall (Hobbist): You play the game well, you paint and convert well, and you play nicely with others. Everything the hobby is about.

Best General:
Best Painted
Best Sports----------> all best at one, single aspect.

For the local tournaments 9/10 The actual best general wins best overall, Painting and sports are usually close enough.

The guys who are usually in the running score 25+/40 on painting, 9-10/10 on sports and win roughly 2/3 of their games.

Back on topic: How to make a lump of coal from CSM into a diamond.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  judchic on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:50 pm

Anyone try multiple small chosen squads as troops? 100pts for 5 with autocannon. 110 for las 105 for missile. I want to try an abbadon shooting list.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  System Commander on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:57 pm

Ive been involved in lots of tournaments where one player wins all his games but not overall.

What if they're barely panted past prime and hes a big dink? General yes.. But not overall.

Ive always been on board.for the full hobby score.


Last edited by System Commander on Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Im dumb)

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  gluvzer on Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:00 pm

System Commander wrote:.. But not overall but ive always been on full jobby score team

I laughed my ass off at this! Very Happy

Your post are getting worse and worse my friend

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  System Commander on Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:22 pm

Fixed it.

Man.. Its so hard to type on my phone.. With this.forum. Ugh.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Timbo on Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:24 pm

Good. Now you're not giving a big dink a full jobby.

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  Timbo on Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:53 pm

judchic wrote: Best general should win overall and there should be some prize for best overall.

+1 internets to Beau's response. I could not disagree with this statement any more than I already do, which is a lot. To use a timely example, that's like saying the CFL's Most Outstanding Defensive Player should also win the Most Outstanding Player award. Defence is just one phase of the game, or in our case generalship is just one aspect of the hobby. To arbitrarily weigh it higher than the other aspects usually comes as a detriment to the hobby. A lot of tournaments do this anyhow and this gives rise to people being jerks and goofy no-fun lists like 'Cron Air and adults behaving like children. I would hope that a player who goes 5-1 who is a nice guy to play against with a beautifully painted army would win best overall versus some douchebag who goes 6-0 with a 3 colour-minimum paintjob. That's the 40K universe I want to live in.


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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  System Commander on Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:13 pm

Its an age old debate.. But ive always thought strongly that Overall is the most important. General is just an aspect.. Usually the most heavily weighted aspect.. But still just a part.. Painting and sportsmanship should always be in there.

That being said.. I have no prblem if someone wants to run a tourney with no painting or sportsmanship.. I just prefer the full shabang style.

Now.. Who wants to buy some autocannons

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Re: Successful CSM army

Post  judchic on Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:47 pm

oh oh! me!

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