Last Chaos List

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Last Chaos List

Post  System Commander on Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:33 pm

This is a copy of the Chaos list I brought against Mark. I actually had 2 prepared ahead of time and could not make up my mind so just let Mark choose it randomly.

I knew I was going up against Imothek and 5 AV 13 vehicles, so while it did influence things slightly, I still had to prepare for potentially more Marines down the line... not that I was under any innlusions going in.

Kharn
9 Berserkers, champ with lightening claw, Icon of Wrath, Vets
10 Cultists x2
10 Chaos marines with Autocannon
3 Terminators with combi-meltas, 2 powerfists, Landraider
Heldrake
2 Obliterators
Predator with all Lascannons
Landraider with Dozer Blade
Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun

I bought the line primarly to park the Chaos marines and three vehicles behind. I had the Quad gun for Shooting duty once I was able to take down the Quantum shielding on something. I knew the first few turns were going to be rough with night fight adding to the vehicles jink save, but thought I might squeeze out a wreck or two.. As mentioned, it was tied on turn 5, only because I had one objective, and were contesting two.. one with a sole terminator, and one with a sole obliterator. Mark had all the bonus objectives secured. Turn 6 my guys started dying and I was fully tabled on turn 7.

The main problems I had was cracking the Arks.. I made them my main priority and was barely able to scratch hull points away. At the end of the game, both were destroyed and one barge was almost dead.. the other two were completely unscathed.

Heldrake is still having a rough go. I chose the wrong target this time around, but on the second turn it had its gun blown off so its threat was mitigated. As a sole flyer, I dont think it works.. you either have to another flyer or something to help spread the shots.

This was the other list I was going to use.

Bloodthirster
5 Plaguebearers x2
5 Horrorsx2
3 Flamers
Daemon Prince w/ Wings and Hide

Kharn
9 Berserkers with Lightning Claw and Icon of Wrath
10 Cultists
Heldrake
Landraider

It had far, far less shooting, but alot better assault potential and more scoring troops. I wouldn't of been so handicapped on the first couple turns, throwing flyers at the Arks to get up close and personal at least.

I'm probably going to have ditch the Berserkers after awhile here.. but I just have so many of them.. I wish I could play a list with them that made sense. I am going to give the Huron or Ahriman route a go a few times first though.. take a couple big units on foot and infiltrate them close. Take a Lord on Jugger as well with Bikes.

Or if all fails I might break down and pick up a Vendetta as well. Ive got a ton of Guardsmen which I would have no problem using, but If I'm going to go Guard might as well get a vendetta to run guard duty for the heldrake.



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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Timbo on Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:01 pm

Landraider is rough against Necrons. And Necrons obviously have little to no trouble dealing with enemy fliers. Tesla weaponry was made for blasting fliers out of the sky. Kelly versus Ward is a tough one, I mean Chaos versus Necrons is a tough matchup. That being said, most lists should be able to kill 20-odd marines and a few 2+ save guys. It just doesn't seem that scary. 100 points of cultists and 100 points of Aegis is 200 points of nothing. Almost like playing with a 200 point handicap.

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  System Commander on Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:35 pm

Oh. I agree. .. Im just limited right now with what i can bring.

The line help out alot keeping the things behind it alive.. The destroyer lord made a mess of things fast once he showed up.

Troops is where i suffer. Ive got about 18 ish regular guys with a mix of autocannons and lascannons.. About 40 berserkers, 16 or so plague marines and then up to about 100 cultists.

I need more regular guys for sure.. But im really trying to work with what i got right now.

I might have to rely on some guardsmen or daemons for some troop power. Ive got another 5 plaguemarines.. And if i picked up a box of the new guys id have a pretty big base of objective sitters.

Itd be nice to get a list i liked first with chaos marines but i dont see it happening soon.

Might be time to explore .. Da da da... daemon prince.. *cringe*




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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  System Commander on Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:55 pm

If i could make use of the 20 chaos terminators i have.. Thatd make me pretty happy.

But without a way to make them troops.. Argh.

Ive got raptors, possessed, bikes, dread, defiler, in addition to what i listed above... But cant sift through whats gonna be scary or useful.

I think my next list might be completly vehicle free.. Try er out.

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:23 pm

I think Raptors are okay.

Bikes are amazing. Even Khorne Bikes are really good.
Two units of 10 Termies would be extremely entertaining. Even if you're marching them up on foot.

Then you can load your backfield up with Cultists for scoring.

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Rhaevyn on Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:27 pm

unfortunately i don't think the new book caters to what you want to play Robyn. if anything, it re-enforces what was good in the last book. nurgle stuff, obliterators(now with nurgle!) shooting.

I cant see the land raider being better than it was with the last book by getting to be 10 points more expensive and gaining... nothing.

Terminators are good. little worse than they used to be because they cant accurately DS anymore. maybe just two units of 6(?)on foot. resilient, fairly menacing...

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Lore Weaver on Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:37 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:I cant see the land raider being better than it was with the last book by getting to be 10 points more expensive and gaining... nothing.

Landraiders are a requirement to make a Khorne army work (consistantly)

Khornate Landraider with 'Zerkers inside (and maybe Kharn), a couple units of world eater guys on foot or something, maybe a unit of cultists, and Khorne Biker dudes.

A Khorne Lord on a Bike might be cool... with an Axe of Blind Fury! *huzzah*

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Rhaevyn on Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:58 pm

Lore Weaver wrote:
Rhaevyn wrote:I cant see the land raider being better than it was with the last book by getting to be 10 points more expensive and gaining... nothing.

Landraiders are a requirement to make a Khorne army work (consistantly)


... if a khorne army needs a 230 point ride that reliably NEVER gets its points back, then its a fail army. fail fail fail. Expensive ride, with expensive troops and expensive weapons.

I'm not saying that it isnt fun to try. but 6th edition and Phill have effectively neutered CSM assault based armies. put drop pods in? win, give an open topped rhino? win. give some way to reliably assault aside from walking 36 inches accross the table? win. Unfortunately that has not been granted.

You know what would be cool? Scoring raptors, bikes, anything that can reliably close the distance. but you have none of those things. so... fail.

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  System Commander on Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:05 pm

OrI do have a khorne lord on jugger to go with bikes.

Oh yeah.. I know berserkers and khorne in general will have a tough go of it.. I ust really dont want to buy and paint a whole bunch of new chaos dudes..

Ill keep on practicing Smile

Ill take bikes with meltas and raptors with melta my next game to see how they work. I do have a chaos lord with a pack as well... We'll see Smile

If i could take plague marines with berserkers thatd help.. But paying that lord tax for scoring plague marines is tough. I could field them as marines with a MoN .. But no FNP.. Still mught be a good way getting some extra bodies on the fielnd and i could always fill em out a bit to give em a heavy weapon.

I do like that chosen can take a heavy in a 5 man squad.. But paying for Abbaddon might even be goofier but at least i could get a 2+ armour guy.


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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Roland on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:01 pm

A few thoughts.....

Are we barking up the wrong tree (as with Robyn making an assaulty army). Are all of us trying to cram a square peg in a round hole?

I do feel making a Codex: Chaos Space Marine, that cannot make a decent Khorne army (prob the most supported Chaos god in the line) is fail. Condsidering many of the other legions do not work well either....

I read somewhere Kelly's way of designing a codex is to make several lists of types of armies he'd like to play and then design the codex around that. I'd love to see those lists.

What units ARE good?
Sorceror and Lords for HQ, not much else?
Elite: Min sized Termie squads, and....
Troops: Basic marines.
Fast Attack: Bike and the Heldrake. Spawn, but you need something to follow it.(ie its supposed to tie up/distract something to the your swanky thing can hit it)
HS: AC Havocs, Oblits, Forgefield and Maulefiend, you can add the Pred and Vindi. Kinda spoiled for choice here.

What I see are a lot of cheapish units that own their own aren't very threatening, but have to be dealt with ASAP. And a lot of expensive stuff that if your opponent focus on he'll kill it rather easily.

Chaos Sorceror 100 1967
Mark of Tzeentch, lvl 2
3 Termies 136
3 Termies 136
1000 sons 150
Rhino 35
1000 sons 150
Rhino 35
1000 sons 150
Rhino 35
1000 sons 150
Rhino 35
3 Chaos Spawn 90
Heldrake 170
Heldrake 170
Forgefiend 175
Maulerfiend 125
Maulerfiend 125

It's probably shit and off the top of my head, but everything rushes forward. The opponent has to deal with the Spawn and the fiends, while worrying about a bunch of deep striking melta/PF termies and some chaos dragons coming in... sometime. If he has troops, and isn't deathwing, the 1000 sons AP3 bolts punch holes in them.


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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  System Commander on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:23 am

Termies have let me down every game. 3 games of deepnstriking in amd shooting combi meltas have garnered me 2/9 hits and no pens.. Bad dice yeah.. But cant keep hanging onto them for long.

I think i might have to look at say using daemons for a main list and pick a few decent units from the chaos book. Ill try that for awhile and see how it works Smile

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Timbo on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:57 am

Deepstrike is way too random. Especially when you're dealing with really short-ranged weapons like meltaguns. You'll be lucky to land 1 unit in 3 in melta range. I'm pissed that they took away Chaos' ability to deepstrike on target. Was it really that powerful? You had to get a mark within 6" anyhow. That was one of the few above-average things they could hang their hat on. Unfortunately above-average has no place in the new book. Everything is firmly average, or worse. Some much, much worse. Wonder why BoLS is doing articles on how to best combine Necrons with Grey Knights right after the Chaos book came out? I'm not Sad

@Beau: Yikes that list does not look threatening at all. No offence intended towards you, you just have nothing to work with. However I'm pretty sure 1000 Sons are the worst cult troops going, so using those is probably a big recipe for disappointment.

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Roland on Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:19 am

Lol, none taken. It looked underwhelming when I wrote it.

I think there are a lot of issues at play.

Hq and heavy support are overloaded. Elites is pretty bare.

Way too many "one shot" units, like Termies. They come on do their thing for a turn, then pretty much die.


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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  System Commander on Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:38 am

Yeah.. Well all those termies deepstriked in melta range.. I just whiff when i shoot with them.. Badly

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  da bear on Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:40 am

Why don't you look at a storm eagle it has really good troop capacity and it's got good armor, finally its got a decent points margin for a forge world model

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  System Commander on Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:28 am

The day that FW becomes 100% compliant with 40k.. Ill order a caestus assault ram! Storm eagle looks good as well.

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:44 pm

at first glance, the storm eagle feels like a good option. at least its an assault vehicle, so you can hover turn three and have your dudes run out and go apeshit on the bad peoples.

its still problematic in that the earliest your dudes are going to get to charge is turn three (if it even shows up on turn two - and your opponent doesn't Back the hell up out of charge range ) and then once its payload is delivered, its a sitting av12 duck in hover mode. (at least it doesn't care about melta range with ceramite)

nice that you can actually buy the chaos one for a discount (no machine spirit). Free Reaper trade is teh goods as well. Though for 205 points, you'd kind of expect some more guns, something to dog fight other flyers with. reaper/TLHB not going to cut it.


While we are talking about FW stuffs... looking at the Dreadclaw entry in Aeronatica... can it move the same turn it deep strikes in? the wording is ... odd. dudes inside cant assault because they were in reserve at the start of the turn, but the Dreadclaw might not be that bad if it can make a flying move after it lands.

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Roland on Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:53 pm

The Stormeagle can take TL Lascannon as well, although that sends the price from "meh, okay I'll pay it" to "hurricane chow" levels.

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:06 pm

Imagine if you could buy Chaos land raiders with the discount for not having machine spirit. That would fix them right up cost wise.

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Lore Weaver on Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:15 pm

Rhaevyn wrote:Imagine if you could buy Chaos land raiders with the discount for not having machine spirit. That would fix them right up cost wise.
Or if they held 16-20 dudes. That'd be nice as well. Then you can have your massive 'zerker unit in there.

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  Rhaevyn on Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:33 pm

Sad now your just making me sad.

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  System Commander on Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:49 pm

*sniff*

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  System Commander on Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:53 pm

Well.. My next is gonna be all on foot.

2 big units of berserkers, possessed, 2 big units of terms deepstriking, oblits, raptors, bikes and a heldrake.

We'll see how that fairs Smile

Ill prob skip kharn and take a jugg lord..or maybe get ambitious and take Huron, of course painted up as a worldeater

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  da bear on Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:57 pm

That might work 2 huge squads would be hard to deal with but they will also attract a lot of attention lol, I know that would make me worry a little hell I would have a hard time dealing with that using my wolf army

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Re: Last Chaos List

Post  System Commander on Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:11 pm

Then i'll have to find.someone who wants to play a 3000 point game .. Because im sure ill be.close to that in points.. Smile

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